? - Less than 1/3 of soldiers are in combat arms positions (in the Navy and Air Force its much less). The vast majority of the money the military spends on its personnel goes towards training them for support positions (everything from medical staff to IT specialists). The exact same stuff they will be doing when they get out and get a civilian job except the civilian market won't have to dump the money into training them. Quite often they work with things in the military that are far more advanced than anything the civilian world is even allowed to see.
That isn't an excuse to dump hundreds of billions into the military though. But, so long as we are engaged overseas in an open conflict I'm against cutting the budget. Make peace and then we can draw down the size. Thats just my opinion.
The military is also substantially cheaper than welfare (more is spent per year on SS alone than the entire DOD).
And as for the money thing, don't ever join the military for the money. It's not worth it. People don't stay in the military for the money. Almost every officer and senior NCO could make a lot more doing an easier job in the civilian world. Its the intangibles that keep them. Likewise, its the intangibles that also keep a lot of people away. It's not for everybody.
My main gripe against the military isn't the money that goes towards training and paying people but the billions we spend on bombs and machinery that are first destroyed before having to be rebuilt. The cost of waging wars is way too high and it's something that will never pay itself off. How about we drastically shrink the military forces and spend the savings directly on developing the economy?
Originally posted by: Coba|t Most great scientific advances of the last century were facilitated by military research and or funding. This internet, this computer, medical advances from the days where you would get liquored up to chop your leg off due to an infection, air rescue support for time sensitive injuries that often occur in car crashes, satellite based GPS, etc etc.
That doesn't mean they're not wasting money either - there is plenty of that going on, but don't just outright deny historical facts like NBF and expect nobody is going to say anything to set the record straight.
The govt already gives grants to non military related research. Cutting back on military spending doesn't mean a cutback in scientific research, it just means getting rid of weapons research. There's zero reason why we can't just devote the resources that would have gone to the military on subsidizing things like energy, medicine, and consumer technology. I think you would agree that more funding for goods and services directly related to the private sector would have a larger impact than military tech that is adapted to serve the public. Last time I checked the public still hasn't found much use for things like smart bombs and exploding rifle munitions.
Originally posted by: Coba|t Most great scientific advances of the last century were facilitated by military research and or funding. This internet, this computer, medical advances from the days where you would get liquored up to chop your leg off due to an infection, air rescue support for time sensitive injuries that often occur in car crashes, satellite based GPS, etc etc.
That doesn't mean they're not wasting money either - there is plenty of that going on, but don't just outright deny historical facts like NBF and expect nobody is going to say anything to set the record straight.
The govt already gives grants to non military related research. Cutting back on military spending doesn't mean a cutback in scientific research, it just means getting rid of weapons research. There's zero reason why we can't just devote the resources that would have gone to the military on subsidizing things like energy, medicine, and consumer technology. I think you would agree that more funding for goods and services directly related to the private sector would have a larger impact than military tech that is adapted to serve the public. Last time I checked the public still hasn't found much use for things like smart bombs and exploding rifle munitions.
being naive again BO
How do you think roads through the Rockies or Appalachians are done? How about taking down buildings safely in NYC? Do you know how pushes in motherboards and chips are the result of R&D for smart bombs? How about polymers and materials going into cars to resist fires and absorb energy in crashes. The list is very long _______________________________________________________________
"If guns kill people then spoons make us fat!"
Originally posted by: Killet for the record, I have no problem with welfare, I do have a problem with welfare fraud and people getting welfare that dont deserve it.
Agreed. And some estimates are as high as 70% abuse. I think if you are on welfare that you should be forced to be on contraception while on it
omg
IMO- anyone who lives on welfare should give up their right to vote.
even though most do not vote (i am assuming here as it would interfere in their regularly scheduled TV viewing in 780p) i still believe that having the ability to vote while doing nothing and living on the tax payers dime, they should give up their right to vote.
otherwise, someone like me and the rest of the Emocrats could decide to run for local office, spew some class warfare shit like the Emo's do, get everyone to hate on the rich, demand that welfare people should make more money and more for each kid and boom, i could be sitting in office like the rest of the Emocrats.
Originally posted by: samUwell otherwise, someone like me and the rest of the Emocrats could decide to run for local office, spew some class warfare shit like the Emo's do, get everyone to hate on the rich, demand that welfare people should make more money and more for each kid and boom, i could be sitting in office like the rest of the Emocrats.
Originally posted by: samUwell otherwise, someone like me and the rest of the Emocrats could decide to run for local office, spew some class warfare shit like the Emo's do, get everyone to hate on the rich, demand that welfare people should make more money and more for each kid and boom, i could be sitting in office like the rest of the Emocrats.
You make it sound so easy.
if you are a Dem, living in Cali, especially in a district where their is high welfare usage, class warfare is the only way to run.
i mean, Boxer was re-elected and, the idiots around here will vote back in Pelosi when its her time. all on class warfare.
RedBeards Competition Manager NA Game Operations FireFall
Originally posted by: questionmark The cost of waging wars is way too high and it's something that will never pay itself off. How about we drastically shrink the military forces and spend the savings directly on developing the economy?
That is a result of our culture more than anything.
It's easy to make a huge bomb that takes out a few city blocks, its also pretty cheap. It's not so cheap to make a bomb that guides itself into a window and just drops the building on itself leaving everything around it unscathed.
If we still fought with the 'total war' mentality of the 1940s we could do just as much damage and save a lot more money.
Alternatively, we don't like to give up our own citizens' lives. It'd be a lot cheaper to invade a country using hundreds of thousands of decently equipped soldiers. Instead, we have less than 100,000 personnel in Afghanistan armed and equipped to the teeth with the latest and best equipment.
We'd rather spend $700 billion and lose a few thousand than spend $400 billion and lose tens of thousands.
Americans place a very high value on human life. We want to prevent collateral damage to our enemies and also protect our own. As a result, we dump hundreds of billions more into fighting wars than we have to, and more than most other countries would. Not saying its bad or good, just giving my view on why it costs us so much to conduct war compared to other countries.
Edit: And I tend to agree with you. Though, I'd rather see the money either go back to the citizens in the form of tax cuts or maybe more R&D. But, like I said before, end the war(s) first. Post edited by Allen at 12/21/2010 7:27:14 PM
Originally posted by: samUwell otherwise, someone like me and the rest of the Emocrats could decide to run for local office, spew some class warfare shit like the Emo's do, get everyone to hate on the rich, demand that welfare people should make more money and more for each kid and boom, i could be sitting in office like the rest of the Emocrats.
maybe its just me but, i always get a good laugh at the Statists who spew "global warming... climate change", blame it on the humans yet when our military figures out a way to clean house on a nation, its somehow a bad thing.
you fucking leftists are already pplanning on doing it because of climate chang... er, global warming... whats its called now-a-days? yeah so, anyways, pignore the lefties because, as usual, they know not what they speak of.
Originally posted by: Killet for the record, I have no problem with welfare, I do have a problem with welfare fraud and people getting welfare that dont deserve it.
Agreed. And some estimates are as high as 70% abuse. I think if you are on welfare that you should be forced to be on contraception while on it
omg
IMO- anyone who lives on welfare should give up their right to vote.
IMO a libertarian should only be eligible to vote for himself for president - because after all, it all comes down to individual selfishness.
? - Less than 1/3 of soldiers are in combat arms positions (in the Navy and Air Force its much less). The vast majority of the money the military spends on its personnel goes towards training them for support positions (everything from medical staff to IT specialists). The exact same stuff they will be doing when they get out and get a civilian job except the civilian market won't have to dump the money into training them. Quite often they work with things in the military that are far more advanced than anything the civilian world is even allowed to see.
That isn't an excuse to dump hundreds of billions into the military though. But, so long as we are engaged overseas in an open conflict I'm against cutting the budget. Make peace and then we can draw down the size. Thats just my opinion.
The military is also substantially cheaper than welfare (more is spent per year on SS alone than the entire DOD).
And as for the money thing, don't ever join the military for the money. It's not worth it. People don't stay in the military for the money. Almost every officer and senior NCO could make a lot more doing an easier job in the civilian world. Its the intangibles that keep them. Likewise, its the intangibles that also keep a lot of people away. It's not for everybody.
My main gripe against the military isn't the money that goes towards training and paying people but the billions we spend on bombs and machinery that are first destroyed before having to be rebuilt.
That's the whole point of having a military, having the ability to destroy shit.
yea, keep shoveling shit on poor people while giving the billionares half the tax rate they had in the '50's under a republican 8 year president (one of the best imho).
i dedicate this extremely old song to you "uncle Tom" conservatives:
That's the whole point of having a military, having the ability to destroy shit.
Yes, and the larger your ability to blow shit up becomes the bigger drain it is in resources and the less sustainable it becomes. Nobody is saying we shouldn't have a military at all, just that it should be kept at a more reasonable size and cost. Post edited by questionmark at 12/22/2010 7:19:47 PM
That's the whole point of having a military, having the ability to destroy shit.
Yes, and the larger your ability to blow shit up becomes the bigger drain it is in resources and the less sustainable it becomes. Nor is anybody saying we shouldn't have a military at all, just that it should be kept at a more reasonable size and cost.
The expensive part is when we try to go half in on a war. Dumb bombs are cheap.
Originally posted by: Killet for the record, I have no problem with welfare, I do have a problem with welfare fraud and people getting welfare that dont deserve it.
Agreed. And some estimates are as high as 70% abuse. I think if you are on welfare that you should be forced to be on contraception while on it
omg
IMO- anyone who lives on welfare should give up their right to vote.
IMO a libertarian should only be eligible to vote for himself for president - because after all, it all comes down to individual selfishness.
hey fucker... i pretty much do seeing as how none, not one of my presidential votes have ever counted towards the person i voted for.
Originally posted by: Killet for the record, I have no problem with welfare, I do have a problem with welfare fraud and people getting welfare that dont deserve it.
Agreed. And some estimates are as high as 70% abuse. I think if you are on welfare that you should be forced to be on contraception while on it
omg
IMO- anyone who lives on welfare should give up their right to vote.
IMO a libertarian should only be eligible to vote for himself for president - because after all, it all comes down to individual selfishness.
hey fucker... i pretty much do seeing as how none, not one of my presidential votes have ever counted towards the person i voted for.
Originally posted by: anarchist- yea, keep shoveling shit on poor people ...
(EDITED OUT VIDEO)
you people really are douchebags.
Shoveling shit on poor people?!
Where's my section 8 check?
Where'es my SNAP, SNAK, FOOD, Or whatever foodstamp acronym card they have?
Where is my heating bill assistance?
Where is my welfare car?
Where is my disability check?
Where is my tax return while not being employed?
I am a fucking taxpayer and I can't get in line for any of this shit.
cummins....sigh....lol ok here you go:
are you disabled?
are you unemployed through no fault of your own?
are you a minority who's been discriminated against?
do you have or have access to food or the money to buy food?
did you pay taxes yet are below the poverty line?
do you need help with or unable to pay your heating bill?
are you clinically insane and thus unable to secure work?
welfare(your term) has never, nor will it ever provide you with a car no matter your poverty, sorry.
i'm guessing the answer you provide is no to all questions, so go fuck yourself you un-empathic douche weasel.
Originally posted by: anarchist- yea, keep shoveling shit on poor people ...
(EDITED OUT VIDEO)
you people really are douchebags.
Shoveling shit on poor people?!
Where's my section 8 check?
Where'es my SNAP, SNAK, FOOD, Or whatever foodstamp acronym card they have?
Where is my heating bill assistance?
Where is my welfare car?
Where is my disability check?
Where is my tax return while not being employed?
I am a fucking taxpayer and I can't get in line for any of this shit.
cummins....sigh....lol ok here you go:
are you disabled?
are you unemployed through no fault of your own?
are you a minority who's been discriminated against?
do you have or have access to food or the money to buy food?
did you pay taxes yet are below the poverty line?
do you need help with or unable to pay your heating bill?
are you clinically insane and thus unable to secure work?
welfare(your term) has never, nor will it ever provide you with a car no matter your poverty, sorry.
i'm guessing the answer you provide is no to all questions, so go fuck yourself you un-empathic douche weasel.
What's pathetic about you is that you are so blinded by the liberals that you believe everybody on welfare is deserving of it.
Here are some questions for you to answer.
If I have a 52" inch LCD TV w/an XBOX do I need to get in line to obtain vouchers to pay my heating bill?
If I "hurt my back working" and sucked off disability for years am I entitled to it forever?
By the well, unemployment is not technically welfare, but let's run with it. If I am unemployed for 13 months and haven't found a way to make ends meet am I entitled to another 13 months? Not to mention I already went well over the amount that I paid in!?
As far as my free car? That never exists and never did? Let's read together friends. I'll even provide links.
Gov. Deval Patrick’s free wheels for welfare recipients program is revving up despite the stalled economy, as the keys to donated cars loaded with state-funded insurance, repairs and even AAA membership are handed out to get them to work.
But the program - fueled by a funding boost despite the state’s fiscal crash - allows those who end up back on welfare to keep the cars anyway.
“It’s mind-boggling. You’ve got people out there saying, ‘I just lost my job. Hey, can I get a free car, too?’ ” said House Minority Leader Brad Jones (R-North Reading).
The Patrick administration decided last month to funnel an additional $30,000 to the nearly $400,000 annual car ownership program.
The program, which is provided by the State Department of Transitional Assistance, gives out about 65 cars a year, said DTA Commissioner Julia Kehoe.
The state pays for the car’s insurance, inspection, excise tax, title, registration, repairs and a AAA membership for one year at a total cost of roughly $6,000 per car.
I know for a fact in PA I could walk into a careerlink and get some kind of assistance for a car here. It was all over the radio about the abuse they had with the system.
Also about the tax refunds, have you ever heard of earned income credits? It's free fucking money. Some people get more back in that than they paid in. They fucking profit for paying their taxes. Meanwhile the top 73% of the country has to pay for shit like the military.
Here's a newflash buddy, it's not all sunshine and lollipops like you think it is. People suck the system, the system is broke. The system gets fucked in the ass by leeches.
