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EC_Lee
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-09-2012 03:29 PM / profile
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I could go either way on this one, autos can get old at times, but asking people not to use them is like pulling teeth though.
I am for either option.
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-=Michelob=-
Jedi Mind Tricks
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-10-2012 11:26 AM / profile
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Originally posted by: Ryouko24
1 thing to add. This game is already ruled by autos so I would hope all autos would be banned from arena.
My reason? It's boring and less skillful. Furthermore, its also sided to east coast players. Being a west coast player the playing field is even without autos with the need for good ping/ lead. And no this isnt a rant about being a west coast player.
I play arena duels (1v1 up to 5v5) all the time with no autos and it's fun, challenging and rewarding.
Let's just have spins, thumps and bolts with non short fuse nades  BTW this is TESTED fully and everyone I played with has fun with zero complaints.
Hybrid, if you're intrested in the settings/rules played with detailed, other than weapons used, let me know here. 
That's my 50 cents.
...not liking the nj5 raider, sld eagle pistol or sen falcon idea 
I agree with all these points.
These settings work best
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OmniVan
TWL Member
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| 08-11-2012 12:27 PM / profile
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we've already eliminated all but the AR through the ruleset. Between all the splash spam that fusor causes and this apparent "ease" of autos, I think it's pretty well balanced.
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OmniNept
TWL Member
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| 08-12-2012 01:02 PM / profile
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Autos should stay. Those "points", Michelob, are merely opinions - and opinions that I do not share. If you'd like to start a splash-only ladder later on, so be it. For now, though, let's get a start with the aforementioned rules.
To be blunt, the "autos are skilless" opinion is most often held by players whose tracking skills are lacking. While autos and splash weaponry require different skillsets, any attempt to rank them is fraught with bias. Personally, I find consistent tracking more skill-based than the forgiving splash of spinfusors and thumpers. Were you asking for an MA-only ladder, the "argument" might hold some weight. (And even then, debateable.)
My belief is that arena players should be well-versed with all available weapons (barring the obviously broken jackal and the like). And honestly, besides ineptitude and personal preference, there are no reasons Arena shouldn't demand the same dueling skillsets you'd see in CTF.
Post edited by OmniNept at 8/12/2012 4:19:47 PM
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Cup-
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-12-2012 01:04 PM / profile
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I feel autos should stay as well.
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Bobby Dole-y
TWL Member
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| 08-12-2012 01:06 PM / profile
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I agree with keeping autos.
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OmniDeskari
TWL Member
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| 08-12-2012 01:13 PM / profile
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I find that a majority of my deaths are due to splash, not autos. Removing them is unnecessary.
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Coffee-Addict
TWL Member
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| 08-12-2012 01:23 PM / profile
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Removing automatic fire weaponry is a bit absurd for the ladder. They should stay IMO.
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OmniHex
TWL Member
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| 08-12-2012 01:48 PM / profile
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I don't agree with that at all, after seeing so much ground-pound in PUGs, and PUBs, I doubt it's as easy as you've over-exaggerated it to be. I think autos should stay, sorry old pal.
Post edited by Mukhtar1 at 8/12/2012 1:49:03 PM
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Ryouko24
TWL Member
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| 08-12-2012 11:01 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: OmniNept
Autos should stay. Those "points", Michelob, are merely opinions - and opinions that I do not share. If you'd like to start a splash-only ladder later on, so be it. For now, though, let's get a start with the aforementioned rules.
To be blunt, the "autos are skilless" opinion is most often held by players whose tracking skills are lacking. While autos and splash weaponry require different skillsets, any attempt to rank them is fraught with bias. Personally, I find consistent tracking more skill-based than the forgiving splash of spinfusors and thumpers. Were you asking for an MA-only ladder, the "argument" might hold some weight. (And even then, debateable.)
My belief is that arena players should be well-versed with all available weapons (barring the obviously broken jackal and the like). And honestly, besides ineptitude and personal preference, there are no reasons Arena shouldn't demand the same dueling skillsets you'd see in CTF.
Comical to say the least
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OmniVan
TWL Member
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| 08-13-2012 02:57 AM / profile
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so can we challenge yet?
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Ryouko24
TWL Member
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| 08-13-2012 03:11 PM / profile
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So last night I tried out what the Omni crew was 'demanding' (to have auto's and 'why not allow it to be like what you get from ctf') and first off found that Omni never even played in a competitive CTF ladder and also found that my orginal idea of no auto's was prefered by all parties as we ended up not using auto's by the time we got to the second map.
I played 3 different teams last night (didnt know 2 of them), in 2v2 - 3v3 last night and auto's ruined it for everyone and complaints started compliing. It got boring, it was sided to the better ping player and you had virtually no chance if ganged up on. That sound like fun?
Atleast without autos it makes for fun gameplay even with specting because a good player can have a chance even when ganged up on. I noticed Omni is not in the CTF ladder... which is a shame because if you were then you wouldn't be asking for auto's. So leave this to people who are actually testing this and have played in a CTF ladder 
We switched to the rule set I purposed, (no short fuse or auto's/ semi- autos) and we had a good time even if a team got creamed.
Anyway what I'm suggesting was TESTED again and again.. not just random opinion but leave it to team Omni if you want this ladder ruined
autos don't belong in arena... and oh I'm actually pretty nasty with auto's
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OmniNept
TWL Member
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| 08-13-2012 05:20 PM / profile
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And another opinion piece.
The fact is that weapon preference varies among people. You don't get to ban an entire weapon class because of personal preference.
Let's break down your last post. By lumping together those opinions different from your own (into the "Omni crew"), you portray them as the minority. That is not the case. While several Omni have posted, so too have several non-Omni; and throughout the thread, many have posted asking for a single raider and few weapon restrictions.
Also note that our absence from competitive ctf has no impact on these arguments. An argument is evaluated on the strength of its composition and the truth of its assertions - not on its source. That being said, a number of our players do play competitive CTF for various teams. If you're insulting our experience and gameplay analysis, you've no ground on which to stand; and if you're insulting our skill level, well, that would be silly. We see Tribes: Ascend as a slow and floaty version of Legions, so we're loathe to waste time on the intricacies of CTF. We do, however, like shooting people.
You also need a lesson in anecdotal evidence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
Anecdotal evidence, such as these "tests" you list, is meaningless. Anyone can select cases and set up situations that support their position. In my "TESTING", for instance, the 3-4 teams we've played preferred having autos in the mix. There's a name for that sort of bias, actually - confirmation bias. You should check that out too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
As for standing no chance against uneven numbers with autos, that's not the case. Again, confirmation bias. An open-minded player would change their gameplay and/or improve to accomodate those situations.
Finally, give it a rest with the passive-aggressive behaviour. It's childish and tiresome.
*insert passive-aggressive smiley face*
Jk.
Post edited by OmniNept at 8/13/2012 6:32:34 PM
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Heartsong_Bear
TWL Member
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| 08-13-2012 05:44 PM / profile
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It's unfortunate that some might think that certain kinds of weapons aren't properly suited to a particular game type, but that is no reason to completely ban them. The fact is that automatic weapons are a very large part of the game and banning them would be massively limiting play style as well as team wide tactics.
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Ryouko24
TWL Member
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| 08-13-2012 09:03 PM / profile
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Don't care enough to 'argue' but I think if anything your reply comes off as 'look how smart I'am trying to be and dumb I'am trying to make you'. Which really is not so smart. Props
Back to the game. Let's have some 'authentic' testing done here setup by Hybrid. I would like to see this start-up soon. I'am willing to help out if you need people to test out gametypes, Hybrid.
I still feel autos will ruin this ladder so let's not leave this up to team omni and a select few. I really feel that if players get a chance to try out both versions of arena (with and without autos), then having no autos will be the highly favoured.
If I'am wrong I will not only be surprised but I will apologize to team onmi and lick their toe jam
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-=Michelob=-
Jedi Mind Tricks
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-13-2012 11:54 PM / profile
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Obviously Omni isnt familiar with Arena.
Granted this is a different game than Tribes 1 of course.
But they had one auto gun total and that was chain gun.
That worked out well considering the ladder ran for 10 plus years.
Autos ruined this game completely sorry.
Now I will say I wouldnt mind one auto gun total.
But there is too fucking many to have them all involved.
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-=Michelob=-
Jedi Mind Tricks
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-13-2012 11:55 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: Ryouko24
Don't care enough to 'argue' but I think if anything your reply comes off as 'look how smart I'am trying to be and dumb I'am trying to make you'. Which really is not so smart. Props
Back to the game. Let's have some 'authentic' testing done here setup by Hybrid. I would like to see this start-up soon. I'am willing to help out if you need people to test out gametypes, Hybrid.
I still feel autos will ruin this ladder so let's not leave this up to team omni and a select few. I really feel that if players get a chance to try out both versions of arena (with and without autos), then having no autos will be the highly favoured.
If I'am wrong I will not only be surprised but I will apologize to team onmi and lick their toe jam
Dont listen to these guys.
You made excellent points.
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Ryouko24
TWL Member
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| 08-14-2012 02:05 AM / profile
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Thanks
I agree with your points as well. It lasted 10 yrs!
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M a r i o
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-14-2012 12:51 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: -=Michelob=-
Obviously Omni isnt familiar with Arena.
Granted this is a different game than Tribes 1 of course.
But they had one auto gun total and that was chain gun.
That worked out well considering the ladder ran for 10 plus years.
Autos ruined this game completely sorry.
Now I will say I wouldnt mind one auto gun total.
But there is too fucking many to have them all involved.
Even the chaingun was usually frowned upon in T1 arena, was usually much funner when people were just using discs, grenades launchers, laser rifles and plasmas. Obviously lots of people still used it because it gave players with low pings an advantage. Although the chaingun in T1 I don't think was as broken as the autos in Ascend.
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OmniNept
TWL Member
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| 08-14-2012 06:19 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: Ryouko24
Don't care enough to 'argue' but I think if anything your reply comes off as 'look how smart I'am trying to be and dumb I'am trying to make you'. Which really is not so smart. Props
My post functioned exactly as intended: it pointed out the flaws and personal biases in your reasoning. Now whether you're able to understand them is another matter. As for looking dumb, well, you don't need my help . . . pretty sure you've got that covered.
Re: Michelob's comment, we are actually very familiar with Arena. Also, when you say you wouldn't mind "one auto gun total", you may as well say you wouldn't mind autos: the relatively minor differences between autos don't significantly alter their shooting/usage mechanics.
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