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ZProtoss
TWL Member
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| 08-04-2012 09:56 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: LL-BLU-J
Originally posted by: ZProtoss
Originally posted by: LL-BLU-J
stuff
BS
There was no reason stated there why Sunstar should be not be played in comp. The map is not unbalanced, the only argument that has been brought up about it is "It plays slow, and hard to get the flag out when gens are up." I guess destroying gens and base assets are too much of a hassle these days. That's not a valid argument to remove a map. The fact of the matter is, it's not fun playing the same teams on the same maps over and over again, at this point everybody knows what everyone is going to do on Arx, Kata, DD, and Xfire. And a lot of other teams feel the same way. We can go back and forth all day long about it. Best thing to do is let the teams vote on it. I don't understand why the map just wasn't left in, and if teams didn't want to play it let them choose not to.
The reason is pretty obvious. Sunstar was definitively not being played more than it was being played. Something that's an objective fact.
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Voss423
TWL Member
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| 08-04-2012 11:50 PM / profile
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As much as Sunstar sucks it was nice to have more than 4 maps.. also please what about the new Temple, it's very playable now. DX would also be nice as well, haven't seen any bad things about it so far. More maps the better.
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EvoPlatypus1
TWL Member
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| 08-04-2012 11:56 PM / profile
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I am with Voss. More maps would be awesome.
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ZProtoss
TWL Member
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| 08-05-2012 12:55 AM / profile
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Originally posted by: Voss423
As much as Sunstar sucks it was nice to have more than 4 maps.. also please what about the new Temple, it's very playable now. DX would also be nice as well, haven't seen any bad things about it so far. More maps the better.
More maps != better. Especially when most of the new maps aren't at all comp worthy.
Case in point on DX (restating from earlier). DX has no generator. That fact alone turns DX into a giant unfun clusterfuck of a D stack map that would create some of the most atrocious matches in T:A history. Not being able to blow up gens via any means drastically overpowers classes like Doombringer and Tech.
Also, as stated over and over again - Sunstar wasn't being played by the majority of teams on the ladder due to the map being terrible. That's not a "nice to have" map under any standard.
Post edited by ZProtoss at 8/5/2012 12:57:06 AM
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LL-BLU-J
TWL Member
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| 08-05-2012 04:06 AM / profile
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I've spoken with a few teams today and they did not have a problem with the map in the rotation, so your statement that the majority of the teams did not play it is inaccurate. Like I said before we can go back and forth all day long, my suggestion is do like the EUs did and have a vote on the map rotation, that way we can avoid all of this, and what the majority of the teams want to play will be on the playlist. And same rules can apply, if both teams agree to veto the map, they are free to do so.
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FumigaTor
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-05-2012 02:22 PM / profile
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More maps. My vote is to play every single map we have. I don't care if they're not all ideal. If you hate a map that much then agree to another in the match comms.
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stridro
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-05-2012 02:40 PM / profile
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Agree with blu bring sunstar back into rotation if we want to take a map out of rotation have the teams vote on it or better yet use match comms to agree not to use it. I can honestly say sunstar is a great map watch rev vs void http://www.twitch.tv/indredd13/b/327222186?t proves sunstar is not a bad map
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Stylepointz
TWL Member
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| 08-06-2012 10:34 AM / profile
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Seriously, no reason to remove Sunstar at all. It is balanced and we need variety in the map selections.
Please consider adding it back.
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DavidBowie
TWL Member
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| 08-06-2012 09:04 PM / profile
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We have played sunstar in a lot of matches, and have a pretty good win rate on it but absolutely hate it. it is a prime example of a map that lets a sniper be way too powerful and the best strat is a boring D stack. i would actually love perma if it didnt have the fucked up gen mechanic since snipers can't own so hard on that map, but i dont see that being a togglable option anytime soon. DX is a fantastic 5v5 map and I am fine with it being played in that mode over others. tart, new temple, and sh might all be ok maps, I have not played them enough in a high level comp setting to voice an opinion yet.
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TrismGG
TWL Member
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| 08-07-2012 07:20 PM / profile
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Bring sunstar back, its a map that forces you to play differently than 3 raiders down midfield, which is a nice change. Sniper is in no way OP on sunstar if you know how to deal with it. There are many strats that you can use, but most teams are just too lazy to think outside of the box and develop different strats for different maps. +1 for sunstar back.
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DavidBowie
TWL Member
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| 08-08-2012 03:32 PM / profile
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we do the weird stats necessary to win, but its horrible gameplay. just because you can time kills on the sniper does not mean it is fun or interesting when a sniper can hit the entire map from one spot.
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LL-BLU-J
TWL Member
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| 08-08-2012 04:13 PM / profile
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Isn't sniper too powerful on every map? That's why they are the only class that usually has a person dedicated to killing them for the entire game. And I think Arx and Xfire are the maps that snipers are much more OP on. I've seen snipers have 50 kills in a comp match on these maps, yet to see that on Sunstar.
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Swordf1sh
TWL Member
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| 08-08-2012 05:57 PM / profile
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I don't think any map should be added to the TWL pool while it is still in beta (DX), as there are likely to be major changes in the final version.
Who knows, maybe invs will be destructible next patch, or they will have been moved to outside of the DX base. And then hopefully everyone will be happy with it.
As for SH, even though it was officially released, it is still expecting a change or two in the next patch (confirmed by KP) - though the likely change(s) will only be beneficial for comp. So yes, add it.
We should start a thread to retroactively add DX-or-thicker fog to all comp maps :>
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