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~~Snake~~
TWL Member
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| 06-28-2012 12:49 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: =>PX<=Major
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Originally posted by: =>PX<=Major
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Originally posted by: Nathan Bedford Forrest
Benito would be proud!
Yup. This is truly a sad day in American history
And to think it was your homie that was the architect... My homie was not the architect. In fact the plan in his state had many big differences. Or is state and federal bills the same in your world?
But I'm sure Obama is a better choice than Bush right? 
A shit sandwich is still a shit sandwich, which would you prefer, white or whole wheat? Wait, we all know the answer to that question!
A better analogy would have been white and burnt toast. Get your shit together!
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"If guns kill people then spoons make us fat!"
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-EB- Bluedoctor
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-28-2012 01:26 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
You just forced Americans to buy a product. Many small companies now will go out of business. Great job messiah in destroying this country
SCOTUS and fuck you for upholding the mandate.
Wrong, Snake. From what I have read, the SC ruled that the mandate is unconstitutional on the basis that it compels individuals to enter into commercial activity. However, it was upheld on the basis that the mandate is a tax.
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~~Snake~~
TWL Member
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| 06-28-2012 01:45 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: -EB- Bluedoctor
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
You just forced Americans to buy a product. Many small companies now will go out of business. Great job messiah in destroying this country
SCOTUS and fuck you for upholding the mandate.
Wrong, Snake. From what I have read, the SC ruled that the mandate is unconstitutional on the basis that it compels individuals to enter into commercial activity. However, it was upheld on the basis that the mandate is a tax. I'm not wrong. Roberts viiew was it was a tax. And it will decimate business everywhere. Wanna wager on how much healthcare costs skyrocket? According to your god obama, he says cost will drop
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"If guns kill people then spoons make us fat!"
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Bigguns 93
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-28-2012 01:54 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Republicans will join Democrats in restoring “good” parts of the law, like the requirement that insurance companies cover kids up to age 26 and every American with a pre-existing condition.
Those parts of ObamaCare are popular. People like getting what they think is free stuff. But requiring coverage to age 26 makes policies cost more.
BULL SHIT. First off people pay more already for family care vs single or married couple. Second, kids visit the doctors far more often than young adults for everything from vacinations to the flu.
SO BULL SHIT. They collect more money for the family care already and they will have lower costs as kids go from infant to young adult. The costs start to go back up as people age, 30 and up, when their bodies can't hande the obesity and lack of exercise. Guess what? They have to pay for coverage by then, so BULL SHIT.
The real issue? Insurance companies WON'T MAKE AS MUCH PROFIT. It won't cost them more, but if they force people off a family plan and into single coverage then they get a higher premioum. In addition the deductible for single person is harder to hit than for combined family.
That statement is pure god dam bullshit. It is sponsered by insurance companies saying they aren't happey with a 50% profit, they need a 500% profit, sorry if that means you will die or be crippled because you can't afford a policy
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
But discrimination is part of freedom.
Based on that logic rape is part of freedom, murder is part of freedom. There is nothing more free than complete anarchy. BULL SHIT
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Above all, discrimination is what makes insurance work. An insurance regime where everyone pays the same amount is called “community rating.”
BULL FUCKING SHIT. Discrimination is about excessive profit. What insurance companies say is if you pay your premium for 50 years and are never sick, then your policy lapses for 1 month and then you come back and start paying your premium, for the NEXT EIGHTENN MOTHER FUCKING MONTHS everything was pre-existing. FUCK YOU! That is not capitalism, that is a monopoly focused on profit based on human suffering.
That fucking piece of shit "opinion" is someone who makes a lot of money from insurance companies. Even if you are against Obamacare, even if you feel the current process is perfect, you should be able to detect the complete and utter BULL SHIT being vomited out in that statement.
There is nothing wrong with making a profit. Insurance companies should be able to profit. Banks should be able to profit. But we don't allow loan sharks do we? Yet Insurance tells us that if they can't operate like loan sharks its unfair? Insurance is a gamble, but insurance companies want to fix the game. Would you be okay if casinos offered odds that were 99.9% in their favor? Now what if your life was on the line, your kids life, your mom, your wife.
As much as people hate Obamacare they should hate this "opinion", see the BULL SHIT, and say that we do need change because we can't allow the current system.
Post edited by Bigguns 93 at 6/28/2012 1:57:23 PM
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~~Snake~~
TWL Member
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| 06-28-2012 02:16 PM / profile
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I liked this:
Today marks a sad day in the history of America. With this decision, Americans have lost the right to be left alone, which Justice William O. Douglas once called “the beginning of all freedom.”
It is painful to recognize that the liberties which our forefathers fought a revolution to secure have been lost. But it is clear that our original constitutional system has been thrown out, and we are left with only the democratic process to preserve our rights. That should be a sobering thought for anyone who values liberty.
The significance of this decision cannot be overstated. Our Founding Fathers were greatly concerned that by giving too much power to the federal government, they would be endangering our liberties. So they sought to restrain the federal government by vesting it with only limited powers. As James Madison said, the powers of the federal government were to be “few and defined.” Yet with this decision, it is clear that the powers of the federal government are no longer limited at all. Our only remaining protections are with those liberties which were explicitly spelled out in the Bill of Rights, and even those are under assault. So today Madison’s vision of the American Republic has been turned on its head: The powers of the federal government are now broad and uncabined, and the freedoms of the people are few and confined.
As Justice Kennedy put it, during oral arguments in March, the individual mandate “changes the relationship of the Federal Government to the individual in a very fundamental way.” We wholeheartedly wish that more weight had been added to that statement in the Court’s opinion. But the die has been cast.
We must now look forward, with great trepidation, into this brave new world, a world in which the Constitution has been undone, and federal power knows no limit. This is a day that our Founders would never have wanted to see. All that they had fought to secure and preserve has been lost.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/06/28/supreme-court-upholds-obamacare-and-americans-have-lost-right-to-be-left-alone/#ixzz1z752GxoZ
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"If guns kill people then spoons make us fat!"
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Cocytus
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-28-2012 02:20 PM / profile
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Secession.
I was thinking about property tax right before I heard this decision. We have to pay this tax even if our children don't use public education. Why can't the argument be made for health care or any other crap they think we need?
I was just at a government office trying for the third time to get these dumb fucking workers to understand that they've misspelled my name on a government document. I can't wait for these kinds of people to take over my health care problems.
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Nathan Bedford Forrest
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-28-2012 02:22 PM / profile
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Ok, in all seriousness, this isn't as big a deal as it's being made out. This is what the state does. It advances it's own power. This was inevitable so long as the state continues to exist. Yeah, it sucks and I don't like it, but this is far from the worst power grab that the Feds have ever taken. It's just another step on the exact same path that we've been on since 1854.
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See through the propaganda. Stop empowering and enriching the state by cheering its wars. Set aside the television talking points. Look at the world anew, without the prejudices of the past, and without favoring your own government’s version of things. Be decent. Be human. Do not be deceived by the Joe Bidens, the John McCains, the Barack Obamas and Hillary Clintons. Reject the biggest government program of them all. Peace builds. War destroys.
-Lew Rockwell
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Cocytus
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-28-2012 02:24 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: Nathan Bedford Forrest
Ok, in all seriousness, this isn't as big a deal as it's being made out. This is what the state does. It advances it's own power. This was inevitable so long as the state continues to exist. Yeah, it sucks and I don't like it, but this is far from the worst power grab that the Feds have ever taken. It's just another step on the exact same path that we've been on since 1854.
Shut the fuck up you Confederate Cornhole!
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Nathan Bedford Forrest
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-28-2012 02:25 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: Cocytus
Secession.
My state should have seceded a long time ago. Oh yeah, we did.
The problem with secession is the same now as it was then. The Feds will initiate violence and people will die in very very large numbers. A state or a few states seceding won't benefit anyone in the long run. There are two valid courses, in my opinion. Nullification or complete dissolution, where every single state secedes and these United States of America no longer exist.
Post edited by Nathan Bedford Forrest at 6/28/2012 2:26:13 PM
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See through the propaganda. Stop empowering and enriching the state by cheering its wars. Set aside the television talking points. Look at the world anew, without the prejudices of the past, and without favoring your own government’s version of things. Be decent. Be human. Do not be deceived by the Joe Bidens, the John McCains, the Barack Obamas and Hillary Clintons. Reject the biggest government program of them all. Peace builds. War destroys.
-Lew Rockwell
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~~Snake~~
TWL Member
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| 06-28-2012 02:25 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: Nathan Bedford Forrest
Ok, in all seriousness, this isn't as big a deal as it's being made out. This is what the state does. It advances it's own power. This was inevitable so long as the state continues to exist. Yeah, it sucks and I don't like it, but this is far from the worst power grab that the Feds have ever taken. It's just another step on the exact same path that we've been on since 1854.
I don't agree. This set huge precedent on what the govt can do at the federal level. We are constantly seeing Obama and his retard cronies fight states over what they want to do I.e. Arizona illegal battle
Also, because now this is considered a tax by some. It opens up the floodgates on what the govt can tax us on now.
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"If guns kill people then spoons make us fat!"
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Nathan Bedford Forrest
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-28-2012 02:32 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Originally posted by: Nathan Bedford Forrest
Ok, in all seriousness, this isn't as big a deal as it's being made out. This is what the state does. It advances it's own power. This was inevitable so long as the state continues to exist. Yeah, it sucks and I don't like it, but this is far from the worst power grab that the Feds have ever taken. It's just another step on the exact same path that we've been on since 1854.
I don't agree. This set huge precedent on what the govt can do at the federal level. We are constantly seeing Obama and his retard cronies fight states over what they want to do I.e. Arizona illegal battle
Also, because now this is considered a tax by some. It opens up the floodgates on what the govt can tax us on now.
The Federal government has been destroying the states and the individual since it's creation. Lincoln had this same mentality and took it to an extreme and ended up having 600,000 people die. The 14th Amendment was an assault against the states. The 16th Amendment granted the Feds the power to tax anything in any manner that they choose, which is another assault on the states and the individual. NAFTA, Patriot Act, NDAA, ObamaCare... hell, the fucking Alien and Sedition Acts are all the same thing in the end. Government control of everything feasible. Speech, trade, life, healthcare, property, education, the environment, parking lots, light bulbs, door handles, plants, chemicals, and on and on.
This is nothing new. It's just one more thing added to the constantly expanding list of shit that they take away from your control.
In regards to the bolded part... read up on Alexander Hamilton, John Marshall, Henry Clay and Abe Lincoln. Obama ain't the first to do this and he ain't the worst either. At least not yet.
Post edited by Nathan Bedford Forrest at 6/28/2012 2:36:31 PM
_________________
See through the propaganda. Stop empowering and enriching the state by cheering its wars. Set aside the television talking points. Look at the world anew, without the prejudices of the past, and without favoring your own government’s version of things. Be decent. Be human. Do not be deceived by the Joe Bidens, the John McCains, the Barack Obamas and Hillary Clintons. Reject the biggest government program of them all. Peace builds. War destroys.
-Lew Rockwell
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~~Snake~~
TWL Member
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| 06-28-2012 02:34 PM / profile
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We are not gonna agree on much. This however was a horrible day Ina American history. Do you know of any other time where the govt FORCED us to buy a product?
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"If guns kill people then spoons make us fat!"
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Nathan Bedford Forrest
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-28-2012 02:37 PM / profile
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Letter_Mail_Company
Also, social security is essentially the government forcing you to "buy" a retirement plan from them.
Post edited by Nathan Bedford Forrest at 6/28/2012 2:39:11 PM
_________________
See through the propaganda. Stop empowering and enriching the state by cheering its wars. Set aside the television talking points. Look at the world anew, without the prejudices of the past, and without favoring your own government’s version of things. Be decent. Be human. Do not be deceived by the Joe Bidens, the John McCains, the Barack Obamas and Hillary Clintons. Reject the biggest government program of them all. Peace builds. War destroys.
-Lew Rockwell
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the wierdo
i before e, except after...wtf?
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-28-2012 02:38 PM / profile
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Construing the Commerce Clause to permit Congress to regulate individuals precisely because they are doing nothing would open a new and potentially vast domain to congressional authority. Congress already possesses expansive power to regulate what people do. Upholding the Affordable Care Act under the Commerce Clause would give Congress the same license to regulate what people do not do. The Framers knew the difference between doing something and doing nothing. They gave Congress the power to regulate commerce, not to compel it. Ignoring that distinction would undermine the principle that the Federal Government is a government of limited and enumerated powers. The individual mandate thus cannot be sustained under Congress’s power to “regulate Commerce.”
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Cocytus
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-28-2012 02:56 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: the wierdo
Construing the Commerce Clause to permit Congress to regulate individuals precisely because they are doing nothing would open a new and potentially vast domain to congressional authority. Congress already possesses expansive power to regulate what people do. Upholding the Affordable Care Act under the Commerce Clause would give Congress the same license to regulate what people do not do. The Framers knew the difference between doing something and doing nothing. They gave Congress the power to regulate commerce, not to compel it. Ignoring that distinction would undermine the principle that the Federal Government is a government of limited and enumerated powers. The individual mandate thus cannot be sustained under Congress’s power to “regulate Commerce.”
There are five judges who think you are a fucking moron. I'll be the sixth and vote yea!
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Nathan Bedford Forrest
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-28-2012 03:18 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: Ron Paul
“I strongly disagree with today’s decision by the Supreme Court, but I am not surprised. The Court has a dismal record when it comes to protecting liberty against unconstitutional excesses by Congress.
“Today we should remember that virtually everything government does is a ‘mandate.’ The issue is not whether Congress can compel commerce by forcing you to buy insurance, or simply compel you to pay a tax if you don’t. The issue is that this compulsion implies the use of government force against those who refuse. The fundamental hallmark of a free society should be the rejection of force. In a free society, therefore, individuals could opt out of “Obamacare” without paying a government tribute.
“Those of us in Congress who believe in individual liberty must work tirelessly to repeal this national health care law and reduce federal involvement in healthcare generally. Obamacare can only increase third party interference in the doctor-patient relationship, increase costs, and reduce the quality of care. Only free market medicine can restore the critical independence of doctors, reduce costs through real competition and price sensitivity, and eliminate enormous paperwork burdens. Americans will opt out of Obamacare with or without Congress, but we can seize the opportunity today by crafting the legal framework to allow them to do so.”
Post edited by Nathan Bedford Forrest at 6/28/2012 3:18:58 PM
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See through the propaganda. Stop empowering and enriching the state by cheering its wars. Set aside the television talking points. Look at the world anew, without the prejudices of the past, and without favoring your own government’s version of things. Be decent. Be human. Do not be deceived by the Joe Bidens, the John McCains, the Barack Obamas and Hillary Clintons. Reject the biggest government program of them all. Peace builds. War destroys.
-Lew Rockwell
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the wierdo
i before e, except after...wtf?
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-28-2012 03:32 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: Cocytus
Originally posted by: the wierdo
Construing the Commerce Clause to permit Congress to regulate individuals precisely because they are doing nothing would open a new and potentially vast domain to congressional authority. Congress already possesses expansive power to regulate what people do. Upholding the Affordable Care Act under the Commerce Clause would give Congress the same license to regulate what people do not do. The Framers knew the difference between doing something and doing nothing. They gave Congress the power to regulate commerce, not to compel it. Ignoring that distinction would undermine the principle that the Federal Government is a government of limited and enumerated powers. The individual mandate thus cannot be sustained under Congress’s power to “regulate Commerce.”
There are five judges who think you are a fucking moron. I'll be the sixth and vote yea!
Seriously though I think they wouldn't have a problem with what I posted.
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samUwell
TeamWarfare Vet
TWL Contributor
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| 06-28-2012 03:47 PM / profile
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think of the ramifications if this law was over turned.
what would happen tomorrow if it was over turned?
SS - the federal govts favorite piggy bank would be considered unconstitutional and that is not going to fly.
medicare would be considered unconstitutional.
and the most important of them all - income taxes.
so the fascists at the bench did everything they can to make sure we are all still slaves of the state/banking/corporation.
the funniest part - listening to Romney talk about this like he would do anything to fix it. but the funniest part, is listening to his sheep freak out even though ObamaCare is Romney Care on a federal level.
i hate this country.
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-EB- Bluedoctor
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-28-2012 04:39 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: the wierdo
Originally posted by: Cocytus
Originally posted by: the wierdo
Construing the Commerce Clause to permit Congress to regulate individuals precisely because they are doing nothing would open a new and potentially vast domain to congressional authority. Congress already possesses expansive power to regulate what people do. Upholding the Affordable Care Act under the Commerce Clause would give Congress the same license to regulate what people do not do. The Framers knew the difference between doing something and doing nothing. They gave Congress the power to regulate commerce, not to compel it. Ignoring that distinction would undermine the principle that the Federal Government is a government of limited and enumerated powers. The individual mandate thus cannot be sustained under Congress’s power to “regulate Commerce.”
There are five judges who think you are a fucking moron. I'll be the sixth and vote yea!
Seriously though I think they wouldn't have a problem with what I posted. Especially since that was what Roberts said.
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Bucknut
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-28-2012 04:51 PM / profile
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Does obamacare cover butthurt?
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