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~~Snake~~
TWL Member
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| 07-23-2012 09:50 AM / profile
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I'm surprised they didn't get the death penalty. But this seems like a good start!
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"If guns kill people then spoons make us fat!"
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TotalCarnage
Commissioner
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| 07-23-2012 02:58 PM / profile
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They basically did get the death penalty. The sad thing is that the vacating of the wins was simply to remove Paterno from the all time wins.
While the coach is important to the wins, last time I checked the players actually played the game and they are the ones getting penalized for this as much or more than anyone else. What exactly does vacating the wins accomplish? Further, how exactly did the conduct of those involved lead to those teams winning. I've read a variety of people talking about "cheating" its not the case in this instance. But like the title of this thread, more criticism has been heaped on Joe Paterno than the sick fuck who was molesting the kids and in most cases it was done outside of Penn State facilities.
In the end, those guys should have done more. I'm disappointed they took down the statue of Joe, but I get it. I get the penalty of the fine (although it only goes to hurting students who could have gone there). But vacating the wins...pointless except to remove Joe's name from something.
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-EB- Bluedoctor
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 07-23-2012 03:07 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: TotalCarnage
They basically did get the death penalty. The sad thing is that the vacating of the wins was simply to remove Paterno from the all time wins.
While the coach is important to the wins, last time I checked the players actually played the game and they are the ones getting penalized for this as much or more than anyone else. What exactly does vacating the wins accomplish? Further, how exactly did the conduct of those involved lead to those teams winning. I've read a variety of people talking about "cheating" its not the case in this instance. But like the title of this thread, more criticism has been heaped on Joe Paterno than the sick fuck who was molesting the kids and in most cases it was done outside of Penn State facilities.
In the end, those guys should have done more. I'm disappointed they took down the statue of Joe, but I get it. I get the penalty of the fine (although it only goes to hurting students who could have gone there). But vacating the wins...pointless except to remove Joe's name from something. I agree and was also surprised that they took away the wins. I expected scholarship penalties, fines and a ban from postseason play, but not this.
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~~Snake~~
TWL Member
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| 07-23-2012 03:11 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: -EB- Bluedoctor
Originally posted by: TotalCarnage
They basically did get the death penalty. The sad thing is that the vacating of the wins was simply to remove Paterno from the all time wins.
While the coach is important to the wins, last time I checked the players actually played the game and they are the ones getting penalized for this as much or more than anyone else. What exactly does vacating the wins accomplish? Further, how exactly did the conduct of those involved lead to those teams winning. I've read a variety of people talking about "cheating" its not the case in this instance. But like the title of this thread, more criticism has been heaped on Joe Paterno than the sick fuck who was molesting the kids and in most cases it was done outside of Penn State facilities.
In the end, those guys should have done more. I'm disappointed they took down the statue of Joe, but I get it. I get the penalty of the fine (although it only goes to hurting students who could have gone there). But vacating the wins...pointless except to remove Joe's name from something. I agree and was also surprised that they took away the wins. I expected scholarship penalties, fines and a ban from postseason play, but not this. I agree as well. I guess they felt if this had come out sooner that they wouldn't have had the seasons they did. In the end it's sad for a school that has a long history in football. But the kids that Pos molested were more important.
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"If guns kill people then spoons make us fat!"
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Neechoo Cheeska
Pepperoni please
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 07-23-2012 03:29 PM / profile
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I don't follow sports, but from what I've read about everything involved in this scandal, no punishment would have been too severe.
If the NCAA had permanently shut down their football program (and I mean for all time, not just a season or two), liquidated it and given all proceeds away, vacated every win that Paterno EVER had, and basically erased from the history books all mention of this football program from the day Paterno started, it was well within their right to do so.
In fact, I'm surprised they even let the program continue. The evil that occurred at Penn State could have justified the first (and hopefully only) time that an athletic program be dismantled entirely, and erased from the books.
I'm at least glad to see the NCAA reacted with as much force as they did, and didn't take months of endless "investigating" or reducing the penalties because of some backdoor cronyism.
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TotalCarnage
Commissioner
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| 07-23-2012 03:35 PM / profile
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While I agree that the well being of the kids who were molested is important. Tell me how vacating those wins, penalizing the current players are going to help them? Matter of fact, the people most injured right now are the current players and committed players. I mean its so late in the summer now who are they going to switch too? Better yet, what about the coaching staffs that gave up good jobs to come here.
This isn't like the coaching staff turned a blind eye to cheating. This was a pediphile working in a calculated manner and doing the majority after he was no longer an employee of the school.
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Nathan Bedford Forrest
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 07-23-2012 03:40 PM / profile
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The current players can go to another school and play football. Those kids can't get un-raped.
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See through the propaganda. Stop empowering and enriching the state by cheering its wars. Set aside the television talking points. Look at the world anew, without the prejudices of the past, and without favoring your own government’s version of things. Be decent. Be human. Do not be deceived by the Joe Bidens, the John McCains, the Barack Obamas and Hillary Clintons. Reject the biggest government program of them all. Peace builds. War destroys.
-Lew Rockwell
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Mockery
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 07-23-2012 03:49 PM / profile
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This is what reactionary minded people do.
A defensive line coach molested some little boys.
They threw the book at him (which they more than should have).
But that's not enough...........
Now everyone who knew the guy, on a personal level, must also be punished (like Joe Paterno's legacy, name and statue).
Now the team he worked for must be punished with 60 million dollars in fines, future banishment/abatement, and have the previous "14 years" worth of wins nullified.
Next it will be removing the teams ability to play in the NCAA all together and/or no longer making Pennsylvania a State.
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Similarly..........it sounds a lot like this Movie Massacre that took place a few days ago.
People want to re implement the AWB......stricter gun control.
People want to ban people from wearing "costumes" into movie theaters.
People want to mandate metal detectors/armed security at theaters.
People want to boycott "Bass Pro Shop" for selling this guy the weapons.............
On and on we go..........reactionaries unite.......idiots unite.........until everything has been fist fucked and hammered except for the "INDIVIDUAL" who committed and was responsible for these heinous activities.
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Mockery
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 07-23-2012 03:52 PM / profile
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And it is because of these mindless blanket policies that collectively punish everyone, except for the individual, who made individual actions, that makes this country so fucking unbearable to live in.
One asshole can literally ruin this entire nation for everyone.......forever
Anyone who has ever flown in an airplane since 9/11 can tell you that.
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~~Snake~~
TWL Member
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| 07-23-2012 04:06 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: Mockery
And it is because of these mindless blanket policies that collectively punish everyone, except for the individual, who made individual actions, that makes this country so fucking unbearable to live in.
One asshole can literally ruin this entire nation for everyone.......forever
Anyone who has ever flown in an airplane since 9/11 can tell you that. So the school had no responsibility? The coach? What seems like a blanket policy is your statement that just Sandusky is at fault
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"If guns kill people then spoons make us fat!"
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Bucknut
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 07-23-2012 04:22 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: Nathan Bedford Forrest
The current players can go to another school and play football. Those kids can't get un-raped.
I was going to post this but resisted. Tried of all these same arguments. Penn state's upper administration covered this shit up to protect the football program.
The NCAA has to send a signal to everyone else to not to do it or look what happens, worse than what would have originally happened.
Everything Penn St got was fair and appropriate.
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Bigguns 93
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 07-23-2012 05:16 PM / profile
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Paterno and the college administration/ leadership covered up and enabled a crime in order to protect their football franchise so it would not hurt recruiting or revenue. That was their motive.
- How does taking away wins help?
The wins only occured because Penn State had Paterno, had recruits, and money to get recruits and fund the football program. The cover up was to protect the program to get the recruits and the money. Fruit of the poison tree (legal concept). Paterno led the cover up and so can not be allowed to coach those games where he was covering up. Recruits came because the coverup hid the crime, so those players can not be allowed in those wins. The money to fund the football program came in because a crime was covered up, therefore no money could be spent during those games during the cover up.
- But the penalty affects people not involved
Read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty_(NCAA). Read Morehouse College soccer and MacMurray College tennis. Those programs had their entire seasons CANCELLED because the coach had recruiting violations. Now tell me, no, pretend you are speaking to the parents and victims. Tell them how those actions were appropriate but the punishment for child molestation / cover up is too severe. Those punishments are the standard set by the NCAA whether you agree or not. Paterno et al knew those penalties where out there when they committed the crime.
Remove Paterno, players, and the money and how many wins did Penn State get? ZERO.
- Its not the players fault.
No one said it is. NCAA rules punish programs for violations committed by coaches and admin all the time. Are you saying a recruiting violation trumps child molestation?
- Why are you punishing the players?
The aren't. No more than you would be being punished if you lent your car to neighbor and he committed a crime in it then it was impounded and you lost use of that car till the case was over.
- How does taking away victories change anything?
How does putting a pedophile in prison change what he did? It stops future crimes and punishes past crimes. This cover up was systemic. Its intent was to protect football and revenue over the welfare of children. It is so egregious
in nature that it needs a punishment of magnitude.
Paterno knew that exposing the scandal would affect the football team, hurt recruiting, bring in less revenue, lead to more loses. Other leaders agreed and aided Paterno. If the NCAA can impose the death penalty for recruiting
If anything people should question the $60 million dollar fine. That is money that will come from PA taxpayers. The NCAA should not be focused on taking money and doling it out, they aren't Obama. Take away wins, strike records from the books, ban bowl games, limit recruiting and scholarships. Those actions will impact the bottom line. Leave that $60 million on the table for the families so they can sue the fuck out of Penn State and Paterno's estate.
Remember Shoeless Joe Jackson? "Why Joe why??" is now belongs to another Joe, Heartless Joe Paterno.
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Kal-
TWL Member
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| 07-23-2012 11:56 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: Bigguns 93
If anything people should question the $60 million dollar fine. That is money that will come from PA taxpayers. The NCAA should not be focused on taking money and doling it out, they aren't Obama. Take away wins, strike records from the books, ban bowl games, limit recruiting and scholarships. Those actions will impact the bottom line. Leave that $60 million on the table for the families so they can sue the fuck out of Penn State and Paterno's estate.
The 60 Mil was the equivalent of one year's football revenues. Essentially they won't make a dime playing football this year.
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Neechoo Cheeska
Pepperoni please
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 07-24-2012 12:51 AM / profile
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Originally posted by: Bigguns 93
If anything people should question the $60 million dollar fine. That is money that will come from PA taxpayers. The NCAA should not be focused on taking money and doling it out, they aren't Obama. Take away wins, strike records from the books, ban bowl games, limit recruiting and scholarships. Those actions will impact the bottom line. Leave that $60 million on the table for the families so they can sue the fuck out of Penn State and Paterno's estate.
That's a very good point. I still say the school should be forced, per the NCAA decision, to give up that money. But it should automatically go to the victims, not some third-party organization.
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Aria Giovanni.pZ
Adapt
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 07-24-2012 07:49 AM / profile
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TC has a good point, vacating the wins was unnecessary.
but, a good point has been made, you cannot be unraped 
so, no, the players are not the biggest victims here or whatever u wanna call it.
but, still, vacating the wins was a retarded move.
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Bibimbap
Kimchee!
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 07-24-2012 07:59 AM / profile
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It's easy for the NCAA to vacate the wins. Paterno isn't around to complain.
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-EB- Bluedoctor
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 07-24-2012 08:05 AM / profile
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Vacating the wins was the NCAA's way of giving the finger to Joe Pa for his role in the brutal crimes against these children. I suppose they thought that Joe was looking out for #1 and wanted the all-time record for coaching wins that badly. I think they wanted to send a message that JoePa shouldn't be credited with the record when he should have resigned or retired in '98-'99 for keeping such a guy on staff for so long.
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[-NM-] SPACEHERPES
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 07-24-2012 09:01 AM / profile
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Originally posted by: Aria Giovanni.pZ
TC has a good point, vacating the wins was unnecessary.
but, a good point has been made, you cannot be unraped
so, no, the players are not the biggest victims here or whatever u wanna call it.
but, still, vacating the wins was a retarded move.
At the end of the day, this is what got Jo Pa and the others involved in trouble. They covered it up because they knew what would happen if Sandusky was turned in at the time. Loss of coveted Highschool FB players, loss of money, possible penalties at the time from the NCAA and the embarrassment of having a Pediphile on their FB teams coaching staff. So they clammed up and tried to sweep this shit under the rug.
They tried the "Its sometimes better to ask for forgivness than permission" mentality.
Well, now you know what you get when you cover up something as terrible as what Sandusky was doing. You are just as guilty as Sandusky IMO if you knew what he was doing and did shit about it. Im sorry for all the players and students that are innocent in all this so maybe they need to have a class action Lawsuit against the powers that be. Or maybe they can stop being selfish obtuse little fucks and think about all the young lives that were destroyed because Jo Pa and the others turned a blind eye while they had a cock forced up their asses and in their mouths.
Its not like Jo Pa was covering up some booster paying a few players, this goes so far beyond that.
They are lucky they did not get worse. I wish they did get worse. Fuck Jo Pa. I hope people who were hurt by this Pediphiles accomplice will be able to sue his estate and get some of that money from that sack of shit and his POS greedy family.
Just think if Jo Pa would have turned that fucker in, he would be a bigger legend than he would have ever been. Now he will be know as a sack of shit accomplice to a Pediphile.
Post edited by [-NM-] SPACEHERPES at 7/24/2012 9:04:37 AM
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Mockery
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 07-24-2012 09:06 AM / profile
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Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Originally posted by: Mockery
And it is because of these mindless blanket policies that collectively punish everyone, except for the individual, who made individual actions, that makes this country so fucking unbearable to live in.
One asshole can literally ruin this entire nation for everyone.......forever
Anyone who has ever flown in an airplane since 9/11 can tell you that. So the school had no responsibility? The coach? What seems like a blanket policy is your statement that just Sandusky is at fault
Yes.......unless the college, the players, the other coaches, and the State of PA also fucked underage children.
Post edited by Mockery at 7/24/2012 9:10:08 AM
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Mockery
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 07-24-2012 09:08 AM / profile
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Originally posted by: Bucknut
Originally posted by: Nathan Bedford Forrest
The current players can go to another school and play football. Those kids can't get un-raped.
I was going to post this but resisted. Tried of all these same arguments. Penn state's upper administration covered this shit up to protect the football program.
The NCAA has to send a signal to everyone else to not to do it or look what happens, worse than what would have originally happened.
Everything Penn St got was fair and appropriate.
Considering this massive over reaction.......I can see why they now tried to cover it up.
Who knew a century worth of legacy and achievement could be erased and tarnished off of ten minutes worth of one sick fucks pedophilia?
Assuming Paterno knew the exact details, which I'm still not sure of, I guess he should have fired Sandusky before this ever had the chance to go public.
I guess that's the un-moral of the story.
Post edited by Mockery at 7/24/2012 9:11:14 AM
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