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Bibimbap
Kimchee!
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-18-2012 02:37 PM / profile
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http://www.app.com/article/A8/20120618/NEWS01/306180029/Solar-growth-comes-cost?odyssey=mod_sectionstories
Solar energy’s growth in New Jersey is being tested by reluctance from business interests and consumer advocates to keep feeding the industry enormous subsidies and government incentives.
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“Solar energy has always been one of my pet peeves. If you’re in the middle of nowhere and will pay anything to get power, it’s worth it, but it’s not a cost-effective technology for the rest of us,” said Long Branch resident Les Cadigan, a retired chemical engineer who worked on cogeneration and conservation projects. “It drives me crazy thinking about the amount of money used on subsidizing it in this state.”
Cadigan said market forces should be allowed to take over.
“My ultimate point is, if we run out of gas, oil and coal and can’t build new nuclear plants and become desperate to power things, somebody will come up with better designs for wind and solar to make them more cost-effective and reliable. New Jersey has no business raising my electrical rates so we can build the current solar systems that aren’t cost-effective,” he said.
Government-imposed surcharges, subsidies and fees make up about a quarter of a customer’s energy bill in New Jersey. Solar energy policy accounts for about 2.5 percent of the bill.
I paid $18 last month for electricity.
Post edited by Bibimbap at 6/18/2012 2:38:41 PM
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-EB- Bluedoctor
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-18-2012 03:41 PM / profile
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So it's 2.5% of the electric bill?
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Cocytus
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-18-2012 04:54 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: -EB- Bluedoctor
So it's 2.5% of the electric bill?
I used 10 million people in my calculation over a 50 year time span and calculated that this tax will cost 2.7 billion dollars based on an $18 dollar a month electric bill.
I'm sure there are more people in New Jersey, the cost of everyones electric bill is not $18 and that tax is probably just one of a few listed on the bill.
Why not add a small .2% tax for people who hold their farts?
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the wierdo
i before e, except after...wtf?
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-18-2012 06:34 PM / profile
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Solar is reasonably priced. Residential installations are what suck up the money. I'm guessing half the cost of your system went straight to the installers, bibim, for a very easy job.
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Bibimbap
Kimchee!
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-18-2012 06:51 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: the wierdo
Solar is reasonably priced. Residential installations are what suck up the money. I'm guessing half the cost of your system went straight to the installers, bibim, for a very easy job.
It's a good racket for the installers, but now that the tax rebates and price of the SRECs have gone down, nobody is bothering. The article goes on how new installations have dropped.
Next door neighbor paid around $180 last month
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the wierdo
i before e, except after...wtf?
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-18-2012 07:25 PM / profile
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As a general rule, I don't like articles that present the opinion of some random dude, like "Les Cadigan," as if it were gospel.
I do think California and New Jersey and the U.S. and the world should be winding down subsidies for solar. It was a temporary jolt to build economies of scale in the industry and for states to gain some insulation from price shocks to fossil fuels. And it's mostly worked. Solar is much cheaper than it was, even without subsidies. The only mistake is having huge subsidies for awhile, then letting them drop off a cliff, which is what a lot of Europe did and it sounds like what New Jersey is trying to avoid.
Well the other mistake is up-front cash subsidies. That distorts the market more than the European feed-in tariffs and leads to people getting installations without looking at the cost breakdown of modules versus installation fees.
My hope is that Jersey tapers down subsidies and the free market forces installers to streamline or go out of business. Panels themselves are cheaper than they've ever been, so you don't need the same subsidies.
But let me know when the hospital bills and premature deaths from coal are included in my electricity bill, and then "Les Cadigan" can inform me about market forces.
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Mockery
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-18-2012 07:26 PM / profile
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Shit........I don't think a month goes past that Southern California Edison doesn't have eight PUC notice requests in the works to raise rates because of mandated "Renewable Energy Fees".
I'd honestly be shocked if I wasn't paying a full $18 a month in just the taxes/subsidization aspects of my electric bill.
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-EB- Bluedoctor
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-18-2012 10:58 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: Cocytus
Originally posted by: -EB- Bluedoctor
So it's 2.5% of the electric bill?
I used 10 million people in my calculation over a 50 year time span and calculated that this tax will cost 2.7 billion dollars based on an $18 dollar a month electric bill.
I'm sure there are more people in New Jersey, the cost of everyones electric bill is not $18 and that tax is probably just one of a few listed on the bill.
Why not add a small .2% tax for people who hold their farts? 50 years is a pretty long time horizon. Why did you pick it?
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Cocytus
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-18-2012 11:00 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: -EB- Bluedoctor
Originally posted by: Cocytus
Originally posted by: -EB- Bluedoctor
So it's 2.5% of the electric bill?
I used 10 million people in my calculation over a 50 year time span and calculated that this tax will cost 2.7 billion dollars based on an $18 dollar a month electric bill.
I'm sure there are more people in New Jersey, the cost of everyones electric bill is not $18 and that tax is probably just one of a few listed on the bill.
Why not add a small .2% tax for people who hold their farts? 50 years is a pretty long time horizon. Why did you pick it?
I know you're the only person here that would have a problem with 50.
Would you like me to change it to 49?
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the wierdo
i before e, except after...wtf?
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-18-2012 11:10 PM / profile
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Cocy's so old that he couldn't imagine measuring on anything less than a half-century timescale.
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-EB- Bluedoctor
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-18-2012 11:11 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: Cocytus
Originally posted by: -EB- Bluedoctor
Originally posted by: Cocytus
Originally posted by: -EB- Bluedoctor
So it's 2.5% of the electric bill?
I used 10 million people in my calculation over a 50 year time span and calculated that this tax will cost 2.7 billion dollars based on an $18 dollar a month electric bill.
I'm sure there are more people in New Jersey, the cost of everyones electric bill is not $18 and that tax is probably just one of a few listed on the bill.
Why not add a small .2% tax for people who hold their farts? 50 years is a pretty long time horizon. Why did you pick it?
I know you're the only person here that would have a problem with 50.
Would you like me to change it to 49? If you chose it arbitrarily it would seem as if you wanted the total effect of solar to seem as high as possible.
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Cocytus
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-18-2012 11:11 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: the wierdo
Cocy's so old that he couldn't imagine measuring on anything less than a half-century timescale.
Asshole.
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the wierdo
i before e, except after...wtf?
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-18-2012 11:14 PM / profile
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Alright greybeard settle down.
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the wierdo
i before e, except after...wtf?
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-18-2012 11:15 PM / profile
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You know I love you.
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Cocytus
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-18-2012 11:22 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: -EB- Bluedoctor
Originally posted by: Cocytus
Originally posted by: -EB- Bluedoctor
Originally posted by: Cocytus
Originally posted by: -EB- Bluedoctor
So it's 2.5% of the electric bill?
I used 10 million people in my calculation over a 50 year time span and calculated that this tax will cost 2.7 billion dollars based on an $18 dollar a month electric bill.
I'm sure there are more people in New Jersey, the cost of everyones electric bill is not $18 and that tax is probably just one of a few listed on the bill.
Why not add a small .2% tax for people who hold their farts? 50 years is a pretty long time horizon. Why did you pick it?
I know you're the only person here that would have a problem with 50.
Would you like me to change it to 49? If you chose it arbitrarily it would seem as if you wanted the total effect of solar to seem as high as possible.
I don't have to make anything "seem" high, the price New Jersey will pay over the next 50 years for some bullshit being forced down their throats will be more like $5 billion. Multiply that by 50 State, that's $250 billion America will pay the electric company because our government said so.
FUCK YOU!
I have to admit, a lot of fucking liberals douche bags got into positions of power and are now fucking us all in the ass for their little beliefs. Nothing is ever going to change until there is some balance.
As a good example, the city of Los Angeles is planning on removing plastic bags from all grocery stores. Why? Is there some huge need to remove this recyclable plastic? Are there that many people in Los Angeles that want the city to pass this ordinance? More likely it's a few environmental nazi's that want to control every aspect of society they can. Maybe we should put numbers on plastic bags too, I hear they can be deadly.
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Pixel
Peter Bread!
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-18-2012 11:26 PM / profile
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Originally posted by: Cocytus
Originally posted by: -EB- Bluedoctor
Originally posted by: Cocytus
Originally posted by: -EB- Bluedoctor
Originally posted by: Cocytus
Originally posted by: -EB- Bluedoctor
So it's 2.5% of the electric bill?
I used 10 million people in my calculation over a 50 year time span and calculated that this tax will cost 2.7 billion dollars based on an $18 dollar a month electric bill.
I'm sure there are more people in New Jersey, the cost of everyones electric bill is not $18 and that tax is probably just one of a few listed on the bill.
Why not add a small .2% tax for people who hold their farts? 50 years is a pretty long time horizon. Why did you pick it?
I know you're the only person here that would have a problem with 50.
Would you like me to change it to 49? If you chose it arbitrarily it would seem as if you wanted the total effect of solar to seem as high as possible.
I don't have to make anything "seem" high, the price New Jersey will pay over the next 50 years for some bullshit being forced down their throats will be more like $5 billion. Multiply that by 50 State, that's $250 billion America will pay the electric company because our government said so.
FUCK YOU!
I have to admit, a lot of fucking liberals douche bags got into positions of power and are now fucking us all in the ass for their little beliefs. Nothing is ever going to change until there is some balance.
As a good example, the city of Los Angeles is planning on removing plastic bags from all grocery stores. Why? Is there some huge need to remove this recyclable plastic? Are there that many people in Los Angeles that want the city to pass this ordinance? More likely it's a few environmental nazi's that want to control every aspect of society they can. Maybe we should put numbers on plastic bags too, I hear they can be deadly.
next thing you know they'll want to remove gays from marriage.
FUCKING LIBERAL SCUM!
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The right is more virtuous than the left. They have twice as many virtues because they have double the standards.
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Mockery
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-19-2012 12:33 AM / profile
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Originally posted by: Cocytus
Originally posted by: -EB- Bluedoctor
Originally posted by: Cocytus
Originally posted by: -EB- Bluedoctor
Originally posted by: Cocytus
Originally posted by: -EB- Bluedoctor
So it's 2.5% of the electric bill?
I used 10 million people in my calculation over a 50 year time span and calculated that this tax will cost 2.7 billion dollars based on an $18 dollar a month electric bill.
I'm sure there are more people in New Jersey, the cost of everyones electric bill is not $18 and that tax is probably just one of a few listed on the bill.
Why not add a small .2% tax for people who hold their farts? 50 years is a pretty long time horizon. Why did you pick it?
I know you're the only person here that would have a problem with 50.
Would you like me to change it to 49? If you chose it arbitrarily it would seem as if you wanted the total effect of solar to seem as high as possible.
I don't have to make anything "seem" high, the price New Jersey will pay over the next 50 years for some bullshit being forced down their throats will be more like $5 billion. Multiply that by 50 State, that's $250 billion America will pay the electric company because our government said so.
FUCK YOU!
I have to admit, a lot of fucking liberals douche bags got into positions of power and are now fucking us all in the ass for their little beliefs. Nothing is ever going to change until there is some balance.
As a good example, the city of Los Angeles is planning on removing plastic bags from all grocery stores. Why? Is there some huge need to remove this recyclable plastic? Are there that many people in Los Angeles that want the city to pass this ordinance? More likely it's a few environmental nazi's that want to control every aspect of society they can. Maybe we should put numbers on plastic bags too, I hear they can be deadly.
I think you are underestimating the number of epic fucktards who live in LA.......
May I remind you that 4 out of 5 new Sales Tax increases passed in Southern California on June 5th of this month?
Only Orange County had the intelligence to question what they already pay, question how mismanaged and diverted their current tax money was, and say that enough is enough.
Democracy becomes mobocracy for a reason and that path to hell is usually paved with shovel ready stimulus programs, environmental policy, and good intentions.
Post edited by Mockery at 6/19/2012 12:33:56 AM
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=>PX<=Major
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 06-19-2012 09:30 AM / profile
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What you should really be asking is Jersey worth it. In a nutshell, no.
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