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Puckfist
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| 08-20-2012 02:10 AM / profile
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The obvious but essential preface of the post is simply the relatively little time I spent in only one city: 9 weeks in Yangshuo, Guilin, Guangxi province. I formed some opinions - some good, some bad - that all must have that qualification; I'm talking out my ass.
I went to one of the regions that has small mountains jutting up in arbitrary places for many, many miles in every direction. Almost all the mountains are very similar in height, right around ~200 meters above the ground. Most of them have incredibly steep rock faces, and the parts that aren't sheer cliff are covered in vegetation. It was incredibly hot (for me), with every day right around 35 centigrade, with a fairly constant 80-90% humidity.
My goal was two fold, I wanted to practice my own Chinese and relax a little for graduating college (or course there's the third reason of gaining life experience, but that's true everywhere). I found I failed on both counts.
To cover the cost of my room and board, I was volunteering at an English college. For two hours M-Th I had to lead a discussion about anything I felt inclined to talk about (I ended up doing about 30 sessions, and repeated no topics). This led me to befriend a lot of Chinese students who were studying English, and while this effectively destroyed my chances of getting lots of Chinese practice, it afforded opportunities to discuss more complex topics.
The bed the school gave me was just a hard piece of wood, but I got over that. When I was a kid I used to sleep on the deck, so it felt somewhat familiar. Their food was very oily and had lots of MSG - so in other words, delicious on the way down but if you're not used to eating that way every day hell on the gut.
Anyway, this is the part of the post that gets pretentious, so stay tuned:
China (by which I mean Yangshuo, since much of this may not hold for all of China) was conflicting.
I met the good and the bad my very first night off the airplane. Around 10:30 PM, I moseyed out the airport and asked a taxi to take me to a hostel. He illegally demanded I pay up front an amount he set and didn't use the meter. Fine, whatever. Or, at least it would have been fine if he took me to a hostel, but instead he dropped me off at some apartment complex. Maybe that was my miscommunication, but my other experiences with taxis made me more cynical in retrospect. The security guard was receptive to my obvious disorientation at now 11:30 PM in a place I clearly was a tourist to, and took me on his motor scooter around town to hotels to find me a place to spend the night, and was even kind enough to go into the hotels and negotiate the price to get local pricing. The ugly made it's appearance three days later.
I made it to Yangshuo the next day, found the school and checked in. Immediately I had to do one of those 2 hour talk sessions, which was called English corner. Our first day, we talked about guns. As an American, I found I would talk about guns with a lot of foreigners as well (mostly Europeans, but some South Americans), and the general consensus among them all seemed to be that we're crazy for how easy it is to purchase a firearm. The right wingers here will be pleased to know my role as dedicated opposition made me defend America's gun philosophy often.
The ugly arrived at 2:30 AM while I laid no longer asleep tuned to the sounds of aggressive argument outside my window (I was first floor, front of the building). Eventually I heard it escalate to sounds of a fight, and looked out my window just in time to see a Chinese guy hauling ass away from the conflict. The other participant staggered onto the bench outside my window and began to wail and yell. Now, he had a good reason to be wailing - he had just been stabbed (edit: or slashed, I guess I don't know), and was bleeding all over the stoop to the dormitory. I probably listened to him (though I stayed inside) for about half an hour before the police showed up and sent him home. I know he didn't go to the hospital, because the next day - after I took in the scene of the pool of blood on the bench and the bare foot blood-stains all around the stoop - I followed the blood drippings for about a mile out of town before I decided I didn't want to know where it went.
But then things got brighter. I fell into a good rhythm with my English corners, and was pleased I could talk to the students about any subject (so as a foreigner, naturally I asked about the government). I found a few varieties of opinion. Some were pro-government, arguing that the Chinese government gathers money, prevents decent, and prevents opposition parties because communist (but especially modern) China is young, so there are concerns of stability. Most thought it was wrong that news articles would show up, then simply disappear again a day or two later. But the most prevalent opinion seemed a totally resigned helplessness to government, manifesting a general apathy about the goings-on of the world.
I thought everyone would dislike the Chinese government, and of the student body (not poor business professionals generally between 24 and 35, some as old as 40) that I was somewhat correct. Some expressed that it was corrupt, that government workers were generally overpaid, and that the state-managed dissemination of information was awful. Everyone said if the government says something, no one believes it.
The thing that broadsided me, though, was that these same people would turn right around and tell me that they wanted to join the government. Not to reform it, mind you, but to get a slice of the pie.
We talked about religion, too. The student body generally regarded religion as a ridiculous fantasy America in particular was fascinated with. They'd apparently had missionaries come and volunteer in the same role that I was serving, and Christianity simply made no sense to them.
I met a student who I liked, and so I whole-heartedly half-tried to follow up on it. I'll spare recounting the social dance, but when I finally told her what I felt she looked like a deer in headlights, absolutely mortified because, I came to learn, there are pervasive stereotypes about what Western men expect from a girl in that situation: imminent sex. Lots of the students, I came to find, had somehow assented to the hollywood portrayal that man meets girl, man talks to girl, man has sex with girl. Every time, casual easy-peasy no meaning sex. We stayed up all night together in her room the night before she left just talking about life - it was nice.
Right around this time the ugly reared its head again. Two local people (very poor young men from the local villages) took machetes and had a fight outside the school around 4 PM. I wasn't privy to the bout, but I saw the blood aftermath, and it looked like nobody involved could have possibly gotten away clean.
But the ugly had began to seep into more aspects of my living there. It became increasingly obvious has completely indifferent most of the students - even some of the ones who had acted like friends - were about who I was in general. To them, I was just another face passing through, pointless beyond my capacity to speak English. They'd dress up the game in a smile and some politeness, but it became nearly impossible for me to not see them as using me. When new foreigners showed up, they'd try to pressure me to invite the foreigners to the bar so they could sideline and listen to native (or at least more proficient) English speakers converse. We'd have the same conversations over and over, practicing the basics again and again. If I was eating at a restaurant, 50% of the time a Chinese person would sit down and we'd have benign introductory conversations.
I can't tell you how many students from the school I was at said to me, verbatim: "You know, lots of people say that 9/11 was an inside job. Who do you think attacked America on 9/11?"
Eventually, I grew tired of the repetitive social interactions, left the school and tried to rent an apartment (otherwise known as a bed with a toilet and shower). Lots of people wouldn't rent to me because I was a foreigner and "foreigners are troublesome."
At that point, I pretty much regressed to reading in my room and counting down the days to departure. One week before I left, the ugly reared its head one final time. I was walking along a fairly popular street around the town, and I walked past a cripple (busted back) huddled on the side of the road with three men and one woman standing in a semicircle around him. As I walked past, no one said anything and the men were all looking at me. By then, I knew how to respond 'Chinese' to a bad situation you come across: mind your own business. So I walked on past, and probably 3 seconds after the scene leaves my peripheral vision, I hear the sounds of fist on flesh and turn around. One of the guys advanced on the cripple and began punching him in the face. Nothing to do but keep on walking - unless you're looking to get stabbed. I felt safe as a foreigner, since we're a protected class (you don't want to make trouble for yourself unless it's worth it, like, say, defending your honor), but that status is revoked the moment you involve yourself.
This mentality of minding your own business extends further, though. One day I woke up to the sounds of rainfall, but it was inside my building. I went to the door, and water was beginning to seep under. In the hall, water was pooring down at maybe a gallon every ten seconds. Two buckets had been placed under the major leaks, but they'd been forgotten and were themselves leaking onto the floor. I started bailing the water and changing the buckets, and after about 10-15 minutes decided to find a more permanent solution. I went upstairs to find the source of the problem, passing 5 students who were just watching the water poor onto the ground floor. I found my way to a flat part of the roof where the water heater and solar water heater were mounted, and it was flooded in 8 inches of water, pouring the excess into the building. I tried to combat the flood, and probably spent the next hour alone trying to mitigate this problem (bailing with buckets, buckets under the leaking water heater, etc.). After I'd been up there for a half an hour, one of the students came to see what I was doing. Once he saw, he finally called the building manager. Water pouring into his building wasn't his business (after all, he lived on the fourth floor), but a foreigner being the only one doing anything about it is losing face, so he took action.
Overall, I'd say most of the students were agreeable people. I understand why they saw me as little more than a tool. Yangshuo is a tourist town, and everyone except the wealthy business owners in the town and the very poor farmers surrounding the town and populating the daily market were just ghosts drifting by. The vagrants didn't care if I knew they were there, and if they had reason to hurt me they had nothing to lose, because they had nothing. The shop owners could cheat you (at least as long as they didn't know you knew they were cheating you) because you're a foreigner with money written on your skin.
I guess the most conflicting thing is how selfish it all seemed. In the most extreme example, one of the teachers put the question to the students that if they could make more money by engaging in a business practice that would hurt people, would they engage in the practice? Unanimous yes. But, on the other hand, a society of individuals (well, 'you' are dissociated among your family a lot more) promoted individual responsibility that I was amazed at. The way they drive is eclectic and terrifying until you realize everyone is so invested in safe guarding their money and reputation that causing any accident is simply unacceptable. If you fail in Chinese school, you fail, period. I don't think I saw any hand-holding (the metaphorical variety) in China.
Part of being selfish is sharing, though. When there's a famine, and you need food for your family selfishness is the pursuit of that need. However, in times of abundance selfishness can don the visage magnanimity, and the competition to pay for dinner, drinks at the bar, or even things like for your popped bike tire between friends is fierce. I don't mean to suggest selfishness is wrong or bad or any other exterior impression of morality; it's just the right word when divorced from moral judgment.
Other things were impressive and depressing at the same time, i.e. the key-maker who works 12 hours/day everyday. People worked incredibly hard, but I think the reason is that if you slack off someone is in line to take your place.
There are lots of other stories and observations (9 weeks is both very long and very short), but suffice to say I wouldn't do it again. I'm perhaps glad I did - many former platitudes have acquired tangible meaning ("wherever you go, there you are") - but overall Yangshuo is not a place I will spend a prolonged period of time in ever again.
Hope I butchered putting these things into words sufficiently 
Post edited by Puckfist at 8/20/2012 2:44:08 AM
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Stoneymontana
New ride!
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-20-2012 02:40 AM / profile
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Damn man, good story. You got a lot of balls going over there i must say. I hear that Americans aren't usually very well liked there. You're always being watched.
I can't believe your bed was just wood. Couldn't you buy something to put down to lay on?
China is probably one of 2 places that it would be cool to see, but i'm not sure i'd go there. To dangerous. The other is Mexico.
I'm sure it was certainly interesting. The photo of the water & the mountains is awesome, that always looks beautiful when i see photos like that. But i'm sure there are some very scary looking areas there as well.
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Puckfist
TeamWarfare Pet
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| 08-20-2012 02:58 AM / profile
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Originally posted by: Stoneymontana
Damn man, good story. You got a lot of balls going over there i must say. I hear that Americans aren't usually very well liked there. You're always being watched.
I can't believe your bed was just wood. Couldn't you buy something to put down to lay on?
China is probably one of 2 places that it would be cool to see, but i'm not sure i'd go there. To dangerous. The other is Mexico.
I'm sure it was certainly interesting. The photo of the water & the mountains is awesome, that always looks beautiful when i see photos like that. But i'm sure there are some very scary looking areas there as well.
The wood comes with a bamboo pillow top! Thinking about it now, the wood+bamboo was more comfortable than after I moved into the room and got a 'mattress'.
I didn't feel particularly disliked, but asking Europeans about their American stereotypes was enjoyable.
You don't have to fret about safety really, not in Yangshuo and I would say not in China, if you travel well. There are thieves if you do something like go camping (the students lost quite a lot of valuable stuff one weekend), but not just sporadic acts.
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the wierdo
i before e, except after...wtf?
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-20-2012 02:59 AM / profile
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I agree with Stoney. It was a good story. You didn't butcher the words at all. Speaking of which, I can't believe there was so much violence right outside the places you lived and worked. I wouldn't have expected that.
Are you still coming down from your time there, or has enough time passed that your opinions are pretty solid?
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Puckfist
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| 08-20-2012 03:08 AM / profile
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Originally posted by: the wierdo
I agree with Stoney. It was a good story. You didn't butcher the words at all. Speaking of which, I can't believe there was so much violence right outside the places you lived and worked. I wouldn't have expected that.
Are you still coming down from your time there, or has enough time passed that your opinions are pretty solid?
Yeah, I think I just got an unlucky streak. I've seen violence in America too, it's not pretty either.
Undoubtedly in flux, it's only been 3 weeks. I don't know that I'll ever solidify them though... I both prefaced and concluded that I butchered talking out my ass - it's the only way I can write anything with a semblance of believing resemblance of reality in such farcical, freely given opinions. But hey, I tried.
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Mockery
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-20-2012 03:24 AM / profile
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Shit yes, sir, you are my hero.
Thank you so very much for taking the time to post this out.
Now I can have something productive to read/day dream about tomorrow while I waste my own life at work. 
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the wierdo
i before e, except after...wtf?
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-20-2012 03:25 AM / profile
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Thanks for making the effort anyway! Did you have any wholly positive experiences there, or at least cause to return to some other part of China? Also I'm curious how functional you are in the language (Mandarin?). It's one of the harder languages in the world to learn, and (I think?) people don't give you the benefit of the doubt with the "close enough" moments.
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Mockery
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-20-2012 03:36 AM / profile
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The irony of debating the dangers of guns, with gunophobic foreigners, to later listen to someone get stabbed to death only a few hours later.
That couldn't have been scripted by Charleston Heston to be any more ironic.
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the wierdo
i before e, except after...wtf?
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-20-2012 03:39 AM / profile
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Mock: they're not foreigners. He was in their country.
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Mockery
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-20-2012 03:49 AM / profile
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Originally posted by: Puckfist
Originally posted by: the wierdo
I agree with Stoney. It was a good story. You didn't butcher the words at all. Speaking of which, I can't believe there was so much violence right outside the places you lived and worked. I wouldn't have expected that.
Are you still coming down from your time there, or has enough time passed that your opinions are pretty solid?
Yeah, I think I just got an unlucky streak. I've seen violence in America too, it's not pretty either.
Undoubtedly in flux, it's only been 3 weeks. I don't know that I'll ever solidify them though... I both prefaced and concluded that I butchered talking out my ass - it's the only way I can write anything with a semblance of believing resemblance of reality in such farcical, freely given opinions. But hey, I tried.
You did better than try.......
That read like it was a very vivid portrayal of your time spent there. I felt like I just got done visiting that place myself (and couldn't wait to get back).
I'm glad you are well enough to have told this story and that you had such an amazing, albeit scary, experience.
Originally posted by: Puckfist
I guess the most conflicting thing is how selfish it all seemed. In the most extreme example, one of the teachers put the question to the students that if they could make more money by engaging in a business practice that would hurt people, would they engage in the practice? Unanimous yes. But, on the other hand, a society of individuals (well, 'you' are dissociated among your family a lot more) promoted individual responsibility that I was amazed at. The way they drive is eclectic and terrifying until you realize everyone is so invested in safe guarding their money and reputation that causing any accident is simply unacceptable. If you fail in Chinese school, you fail, period. I don't think I saw any hand-holding (the metaphorical variety) in China.
This was especially enlightening to me.
It is a philosophical ideal that I am constantly finding myself struggling with.
Too much individualism produces amoral people who will beat a cripple, for his money, in the street.
Too little individualism produces a society where nobody takes responsibility for themselves and their own actions.
Yet another great example of needing yin and yang.......and a selective balance between two worlds.
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Mockery
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-20-2012 03:54 AM / profile
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Originally posted by: the wierdo
Mock: they're not foreigners. He was in their country.
gunophobic locals........my bad (though the Europeans he mentioned were still foreigners).
still, you have to see the irony of them thinking we are a barbaric society for owning guns, while they openly cut and stab the shit out of each other in the street like they are running a butcher shop.
Reminds me of a bumper sticker I used to see when riding my bike to college years back, "Ban Guns: That way I can go back to killing all my enemies with a sword".
They are certainly taking that shit to heart over there.
They fear and distrust their government, because they are completely powerless against them.
They fear each other, because they have limited ability to protect themselves from far more powerful aggressors.
They fear guns, because they don't understand them, but don't care enough to try to see how they could be useful in helping them out with those other two glaring problems.
"God might have made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal."
Post edited by Mockery at 8/20/2012 4:02:46 AM
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Puckfist
TeamWarfare Pet
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| 08-20-2012 04:16 AM / profile
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Originally posted by: the wierdo
Thanks for making the effort anyway! Did you have any wholly positive experiences there, or at least cause to return to some other part of China? Also I'm curious how functional you are in the language (Mandarin?). It's one of the harder languages in the world to learn, and (I think?) people don't give you the benefit of the doubt with the "close enough" moments.
Many of the students were on the whole positive, I just burned out on being a volunteer I think.
I had a couple of drunken adventures with a Brit, an Argentinian, and a Nepalese bartender we met along the way. Played a lot of chess with a hippie over tea.
I'm by no means great, but I can be articulate enough when I need to be. Listening is quite difficult.
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Puckfist
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| 08-20-2012 04:34 AM / profile
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Originally posted by: Mockery
Originally posted by: the wierdo
Mock: they're not foreigners. He was in their country.
gunophobic locals........my bad (though the Europeans he mentioned were still foreigners).
still, you have to see the irony of them thinking we are a barbaric society for owning guns, while they openly cut and stab the shit out of each other in the street like they are running a butcher shop.
Reminds me of a bumper sticker I used to see when riding my bike to college years back, "Ban Guns: That way I can go back to killing all my enemies with a sword".
They are certainly taking that shit to heart over there.
They fear and distrust their government, because they are completely powerless against them.
They fear each other, because they have limited ability to protect themselves from far more powerful aggressors.
They fear guns, because they don't understand them, but don't care enough to try to see how they could be useful in helping them out with those other two glaring problems.
"God might have made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal."
I really disagree.
They don't think we're barbaric, they think we're crazy. None of the people died (well, I'm fairly certain nobody died from the machete fight I suspect that would have been a distressing amount of blood.
I can't say I agree with the conclusions about fear either, it's just a different place, different ways of valuing things.
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Mockery
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-20-2012 04:52 AM / profile
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Originally posted by: Puckfist
Originally posted by: Mockery
Originally posted by: the wierdo
Mock: they're not foreigners. He was in their country.
gunophobic locals........my bad (though the Europeans he mentioned were still foreigners).
still, you have to see the irony of them thinking we are a barbaric society for owning guns, while they openly cut and stab the shit out of each other in the street like they are running a butcher shop.
Reminds me of a bumper sticker I used to see when riding my bike to college years back, "Ban Guns: That way I can go back to killing all my enemies with a sword".
They are certainly taking that shit to heart over there.
They fear and distrust their government, because they are completely powerless against them.
They fear each other, because they have limited ability to protect themselves from far more powerful aggressors.
They fear guns, because they don't understand them, but don't care enough to try to see how they could be useful in helping them out with those other two glaring problems.
"God might have made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal."
I really disagree.
They don't think we're barbaric, they think we're crazy. None of the people died (well, I'm fairly certain nobody died from the machete fight I suspect that would have been a distressing amount of blood.
I can't say I agree with the conclusions about fear either, it's just a different place, different ways of valuing things.
I often feel that knife fighting is scary and barbaric.
But from the comments of people like Swoop.......I know I am often alone in that fear (and perhaps unjustified to believe the way i do).
When human life means so little, which is the consensus I get from Far Eastern nations, I can't imagine not having an ability to protect myself from those who either wish me harm, or clearly don't give a fuck about me.
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Mockery
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-20-2012 04:54 AM / profile
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Originally posted by: Puckfist
Originally posted by: the wierdo
Thanks for making the effort anyway! Did you have any wholly positive experiences there, or at least cause to return to some other part of China? Also I'm curious how functional you are in the language (Mandarin?). It's one of the harder languages in the world to learn, and (I think?) people don't give you the benefit of the doubt with the "close enough" moments.
Many of the students were on the whole positive, I just burned out on being a volunteer I think.
I had a couple of drunken adventures with a Brit, an Argentinian, and a Nepalese bartender we met along the way. Played a lot of chess with a hippie over tea.
I'm by no means great, but I can be articulate enough when I need to be. Listening is quite difficult.
Not an easy language to learn by any means.
The more time I try to understand it the less sense any of it seems to make to me.......
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Questor
Shaven Goodness
TeamWarfare Vet
TWL Contributor
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| 08-20-2012 09:15 AM / profile
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Excellent story, Puck, and not inconsistent with what I would have guessed given that I mentored kids in Chinatown (NYC) for 12 years. I saw firsthand the results in the parents of living in China and, more specifically, an environment like you described.
So how good is your Chinese anyway? And what dialect do you speak?
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~~Snake~~
TWL Member
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| 08-20-2012 10:14 AM / profile
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Good post. Glad you got out a saw a little slice of the world
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"If guns kill people then spoons make us fat!"
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Neechoo Cheeska
Pepperoni please
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-20-2012 11:15 AM / profile
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Very interesting post - thanks for sharing!
For myself, I've never had a desire to go to anywhere in Asia. It's just not a part of the world that interests me. I guess I'm too WASPy and prefer Europe more.
Only place in Africa I'd ever want to go is Egypt, but probably never will.
Would like to go to Australia sometime, but doubt I could survive the plane flight. I hate any flight over about 4 hours, and start to go batty on flights as long as 7 or 8 hours, so I couldn't do some 14, 18+ hour flight.
Only place in South America I'd like to go is Patagonia in Argentina and Chile. That would be one of my bucket list places to go hiking, backpacking, etc, and just experience an incredible, largely untouched, part of the world.
I also wouldn't mind doing a stint in Antarctica. Years ago, I read about a scientific organization that would accept "volunteers" (I don't think you got paid, in fact you might have to pay to go) to assist with research down there. But they made it very clear you were isolated with the rest of the team and had to be in good health and comfortable with that level of isolation because if anything went wrong (you got sick, started going batshit crazy, etc) there was no way to evacuate you quickly.
Now I'm getting wanderlust, on a Monday morning when I have to go sit in a damned cube all day *sigh*
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hackshot.
Thread Killer
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| 08-20-2012 11:41 AM / profile
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Originally posted by: Neechoo Cheeska
Very interesting post - thanks for sharing!
For myself, I've never had a desire to go to anywhere in Asia. It's just not a part of the world that interests me. I guess I'm too WASPy and prefer Europe more.
I also wouldn't mind doing a stint in Antarctica. Years ago, I read about a scientific organization that would accept "volunteers" (I don't think you got paid, in fact you might have to pay to go) to assist with research down there. But they made it very clear you were isolated with the rest of the team and had to be in good health and comfortable with that level of isolation because if anything went wrong (you got sick, started going batshit crazy, etc) there was no way to evacuate you quickly.
Ditto. I spent a week or so in Honduras...not sure I want to repeat that kind trip again. Nothing like everyone has guns and the local McDonald's has a sentry posted on it. Also glad I looked semi-local and without money.
Personally, I'd want to hit up Australia and see some of my fiance's extended family. Maybe later on spend some time seeing Europe again, since I was too young to really remember Spain/France.
I'd totally want to see Antarctica and my fiance has a fairly good probability getting to work there as part of her research. If she does, I'll see if I can tag along and maybe help the research whilst I'm there.
Edit: Enjoyed the post puck, good story!
Post edited by hackshot. at 8/20/2012 11:52:49 AM
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=>PX<=Major
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-20-2012 11:47 AM / profile
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Great post, Puck! Thanks for sharing!
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-Napir^
TeamWarfare Vet
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| 08-20-2012 12:39 PM / profile
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Great story - thanks!
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Originally posted by: Cummins aka RomneyBot
I woke up at like 8 am, woke her up and she told me she needed to be honest. She said I fucked both your friends last night. I dont know why I did it. I punched a hole in the wall because I realized how stupid I was. Then I looked outside no sign of any rain. <--update Jun 1st, 2012.
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