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mtnduman
TeamWarfare Vet
TWL Retired Staff
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| 10-14-2009 01:46 AM / profile
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This thread will be the place where you can come to make constructive(you may disagree but please give thoughtful reasons) input towards additions in the GG ladder and/or things that you think should be taken out. Types of topics would be rules, maps, weapons, and anything you would like to see changed to make this ladder predominant amongst the Source community.
If you suggest a map please add a link to the map and format it in this way:
Pros:
Cons:
Improvements:
Notes:
Does not have to be formatted just like that, but use sense when you post so we clearly know why you think the map should and/or shouldn't be considered. This helps everyone get a feel for what others think more than just saying "Good!" or "WORST MAP EVER".
Things that will NOT be tolerated are banter/fighting,off topic posts, and anything not pertaining to GG ladder. Posts not in the spirit of this thread will be edited or taken out fully.
The more input we get the better it makes the ladder as a whole. Let others know about it and tell them to post.
Prince please sticky this.
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snizz.
TWL Member
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| 10-14-2009 02:24 PM / profile
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I am sure this will not only be shot down, but used next time someone needs toilet paper but...
I think you should be able to knife of nade level. I say this because not only is it a "weapon level" and all weapons are able to be stolen, but sometimes nade level is what keeps matches going for ages. With that said, you could tweak the GG4 files so if you want to knife off nade, you need two knife kills. Something like that. That was my shitty idea. Here are some good ones. 
Another ladder for reverse gun game...?
Add the UMP please. It really is a fun gun if you think about it. It is an automatic glock that sounds a lot cooler than it is. Also, there really needs to be more guns in general, so that could help and I am against the auto shotty and AWP.
Lastly, the only way to get this ladder more popular, IMO, is to completely change the way GG is played. I hate to say it, but when people think of a gun game player they think CAMP, BAD, NOOB, ect. It is a "respected" mod. As I have said, it is a mod of a mod. So, in order to make it more attractive to more players is to take out the element of "Ok, they are on knife and we are not even off scout. Lets sit back and camp hard in areas they can't get to us with a knife and play catch up until we get lucky and win."
^ I scrimmed against IPS last night, with war core. I was 18-3 on nade with IPS still on smg's. We lost. Scrim took an extra 30 minutes. I was on knife for over 20. I just couldn't get the knife with the camping.
So, I am not saying change, in fact, I like it the way it is. All I am saying, is if you want to expand, you have to do something about that because after one match for a new team on the GG ladder, they will quit because they won't be used to "GG strats" (aka camping).
Oh, one more thing. We should add more fy maps. Shotty, snow, ect. Small square maps are PERFECT for GG. I see the point of GG as accuracy with all the weapons and sound. That is how you win. Those skills are tested the best on even square playing fields. Paintball maps would be cool too for the same reason.
Thats all! Thanks Mtn for this thread!
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awpt1x
TWL Member
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| 10-14-2009 04:56 PM / profile
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I like the idea of 2 knife kills to skip nade!
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mtnduman
TeamWarfare Vet
TWL Retired Staff
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| 10-14-2009 05:17 PM / profile
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Well I don't need any TP right now, but this was the type of post that I was hoping for. Thanks snizz. Keep them coming people.
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snizz.
TWL Member
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| 10-14-2009 07:37 PM / profile
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Lol. No problem.
I just hope enough people out there care enough to spend 10 minutes and post!
LONG LIVE GUNGAME! (even though I secretly hate it)
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Rubber Bullets
TeamWarfare Vet
TWL Retired Staff
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| 10-14-2009 10:26 PM / profile
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One thing we are looking at is GunGame 5
From what I gather we do not want it to strip guns (we are working with the developers) But would you want the knifer to have the gun stripped? Judging by snizz that would probably be a no
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Mouth662
TWL Member
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| 10-15-2009 03:14 AM / profile
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Snizz with a useful post on the forums? I'm confused.
I actually really like the knife off of nade idea especially if it would require two knives to get off of it so you would need 3 knives or a nade and a knife to win.
Reverse gungame ladder would also be awesome but for that we need more admins =D http://www.teamwarfare.com/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=269&threadid=443208
and the ump is just a terrible weapon, I hate looking at my console and seeing dmg 75 in 8. the fact that you called it a glorified glock or whatever doesn't help, in fact get rid of the glock too i hate it >< (not really suggesting getting rid of the glock I just hate it) though I'm actually in favor of the awp. can give another scoped weapon that can be used to a knifers advantage if hes smart or the awper is bad.
I think leaving a knifer defenseless would be a bad idea, might just prolong matches if anything.
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PrinceofHonor
TeamWarfare Vet
Retired Sr. Staff
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| 10-15-2009 09:44 AM / profile
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All great suggestion(s), any new ladder(s) would require more staffing so that things wouldn't get bogged down. At the moment we have new admin's learning which is one reason for some of the delays recently on disputes, this seems to be improving as the day(s) / week(s) go by.
We can test some of the ideas you have mentioned and tweak them, we would like to see Gun Game grow as well. We do understand that in order to grow we need the support of the community and need to make it challenging, but at the same time easy and fun to play for beginers.
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snizz.
TWL Member
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| 10-15-2009 02:16 PM / profile
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Well....
@ POH: You already know I want to help and will do anything I am "allowed to do". You understand, .
@ Mouth: AWP will kill this ladder and UMP is just a funny go, so add it for lulz.
@ EVERYONE: We should focus more on maps right now. That would be the biggest flaw in gungame. I say remove all maps that have potential to last longer than an hour...
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PrinceofHonor
TeamWarfare Vet
Retired Sr. Staff
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| 10-17-2009 10:49 AM / profile
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Originally posted by: snizz.
Well....
@ POH: You already know I want to help and will do anything I am "allowed to do". You understand, .
@ Mouth: AWP will kill this ladder and UMP is just a funny go, so add it for lulz.
@ EVERYONE: We should focus more on maps right now. That would be the biggest flaw in gungame. I say remove all maps that have potential to last longer than an hour...
1) Ok, we will get some FY, and paintball maps to add to the server provided to us by: Art of War Central for testing by the teams.
2) I am looking for an anti-cheat option it might be two fold, one server side and one on the admin side. I have been reading some of the programers comments on an anti-cheat client, they state that once it is developed it does take long before someone finds a work around.
3) Looking to team up with Legit and Steam Bans will provide further details as they are available.
I can ensure you that we are doing everything possible to make Gun Game and CS:S in general as good as it can be.
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snizz.
TWL Member
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mtnduman
TeamWarfare Vet
TWL Retired Staff
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| 10-18-2009 12:51 AM / profile
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I was hoping we would be getting more than one player that's not an admin posting here. Where's all the people that wanted more guns and different maps??
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boneh3ad
TWL Member
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| 10-18-2009 01:23 PM / profile
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Personally, I don't like the idea of AWP being added. Having a one hit kill gun added to the ladder just seems like it would be ridiculous. Sure it would make matches go a little faster since it would be easier to trim a team down to its final player for the knifer, but it would also remove quite a bit of skill from doing that since you can just use the AWP, where shooting someone in the thigh will kill them. Personally, I think that con outweighs the pros.
While I don't necessarily mind UMP, most people do, and I have a feeling that adding it will be mostly viewed as a bad thing by the community.
As for maps, I am all for adding more, but I think we need to use extreme caution when adding them, especially when trying to minimize camping. For instance, cs_paintball would have a problem with camping on top of the middle building where knifing him would be next to impossible. Fight yard maps are good for gungame, but at some point, if we add too many, it just takes away from the variety, so I wouldn't add too many of them.
As for maps, I personally would like to add a few more "realistic" ones such as inferno or desertstorm (commence flaming now). I get pretty tired of texture maps and multiple versions of shotty nonstop sometimes, so the ones that are themed after buildings and stuff have always been a nice change of pace in my mind. I can go and try to find some good suggestions for that later today perhaps.
I also would like to request that any map with the word churches in it NEVER be added to the ladder. They are just absolutely not suited for ladder play. Large, campy, and usually poorly made.
Last thing I can think of right now has to do with map voting. I think that voting for new maps should only be open to team captains (similar to how the leadership forum works, 2 per team), as suggested before. There are two many FNG's that come in here and vote for their favorite pub map and either get pissed when it doesn't make it or push it over the edge so crappy maps get added. Even better would be to limit the votes to people who have been on the ladder for at least a month or something to ensure that the people voting are familiar with the way the ladder works to be able to vote smartly instead of based on their pubbing.
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snizz.
TWL Member
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| 10-18-2009 03:06 PM / profile
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Saying it removes skill from the game because the AWP kills in one hit is being kinda closed minded. I am against it as well, but that is just because I am not good with it. The scout is great for getting the nade but I think the AWP would be e-mazing for the knife. Pick of 2 or 3 and bang, you have a 2v5 sitch. Also, for those who think its "not fair" the AWP kills in one shot and takes no skill to use... well, you are like that kid at the arcade crying at mortal combat because I keep tripping him over and over.
I say make it a vote. AWP, yes or no. No raging, majority rules.
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boneh3ad
TWL Member
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| 10-18-2009 03:57 PM / profile
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You are obviously entitled to your opinion. Personally, I think it is a gun that makes it too easy to get a kill without a headshot. The scout is great. It needs a headshot or two body shots. The AWP is a one hit kill regardless as long as you don't shoot the foot. My personal opinion is that it should not be added.
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Jeubag
TWL Member
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| 10-19-2009 12:29 AM / profile
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If the AWP does get added I personnaly will not par take in this ladder anymore. The AWP would be a permanent Swap weapon for anyteam on any given map except shotty or an enclosed map like that.The AWP would def. make maps end faster cause of destroying a team one by one after each shot, But it is a gun that should remain in Reg.(Ill make another post with more points to this I'm to tired to rant on about this weapon.) 1 hit weapon IMO no skill. The scout is fucking awesome let it remain the only sniper it takes a decent amout of skill to pick the scout up and own a team with it.
Now as for the UMP. Add it that just add another Glock to the list to piss someone off..IMO Ump is a pretty damn good bleeding weapon small dmg and after 7 hits you nade the bitch end of story on that.OH And the p228 add that shit. That is a damn good pistol and i don't really see why it did not make the cut for the TWL weapon list.
Map wise i don't have much to say. Keep Dstorm. It was voted on and it got to stay so lets not over turn that. Deagle.....Get Deagle6_texture it does not have the afk glitch and The only difference in it is the Big bridge in the middle instead of the narrow bridge.
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snizz.
TWL Member
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| 10-19-2009 01:02 AM / profile
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How about bhopping?
People bitched about that saying it is not realistic and this game shoots for a realistic feel. In that case, the scout should be REPLACED by the AWP. Realistically, if I shoot you in the chest with a sniper rifle, I am pretty sure you are going down.
A vote I say. For all these guns. AWP, UMP, P228, and even auto-shotty and auto-sniper.
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boneh3ad
TWL Member
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| 10-19-2009 10:24 AM / profile
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1) The realism aspect is kind of a ridiculous argument. It is a game, not real life. The reason bhopping is ridiculous is that it wasn't an intended feature of the game as thought up by the developers. If you really want to argue about realism, then we should also up the nade damage to be about 500 when you are right next to it with a kill radius of probably 10 meters. That would be ridiculous.
2) No, a scout would not kill me if you shot me in the chest in real life. The key here is the fact that in game, the characters are wearing body armor, and in real life, a scout rifle fires a 7.62 mm round, which modern body armor can easily stop.
3) I am all for finding a deagle map that works, though I don't really think texture is the answer. I am kind of sick of texture maps. Deagle 7 (I think) is one that is brighter inside than 5 somewhat, and doesn't have the AFK glitch to my knowledge.
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snizz.
TWL Member
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| 10-19-2009 10:51 AM / profile
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Right, but the whole "realism" argument was the reason bhopping was removed from some of TWL and most of CS:S. I am pretty sure is bhopping was NOT intended, then you wouldn't be able to do it. (try it in COD. You simply, can't)
I agree, saying this game shoots for realism is as abstract as saying the moon is made of cheese, but there are people out there who want that.
BTW, kind of going off topic now, but in CSS, even without kevlar to start the round, a scout shot to the neck does about 75 damage. Come on...
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boneh3ad
TWL Member
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| 10-19-2009 11:48 AM / profile
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Yeah, and a USP shot to the face does about 65, while a MAC10 shot to the face does in the 60's... it really isn't that realistic. Also, did I mention you can get shot in the chest with a 12 gauge and only take 10 damage?
And COD cleaned up the bunny hopping most likely because they had the foresight to do it. I would bet a kidney that CSS only has bhopping because the developers had an oversight and didn't fix it when they were developing the game, or else didn't know about it.
Post edited by boneh3ad at 10/19/2009 11:57:40 AM
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Rubber Bullets
TeamWarfare Vet
TWL Retired Staff
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| 10-19-2009 12:25 PM / profile
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ok lets get back on topic guys
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